So... Which Formation?

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious

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    It's no secret that SCP has used pre season to tinker around with different formations - trying 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-3 as well as the trusted 4-4-2. All of them have been pretty successful with the exception to the Gillingham match on Saturday, where I believe we started with 4-1-2-1-2 with Stephens holding and Cook behind the front 2. The result is known and much has been made of individual performances with the two names above coming in for criticism from pretty much everyone who attended (though I think they were out of position).

    With less than 2 weeks to go before the big kick off, would it be right to assume that this formation has failed (or not gone as well as expected to put it more gently)? From those who have attended any of the games, are you able to give a better idea of what formation you think we should be using and why?
     
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  2. deleted.....

    deleted..... Well-Known Member

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    Problem is that our best player (Kermit) does not fit in with our best formation 4-3-3.

    A 4-3-3 would be

    Solly.....Cort.....Morrow.....Wiggins

    ...Hollands..Stephens...Jackson...

    ...Haynes.... ? ..... Cook...

    The obvious person for ? is Bradders but how could you leave Kermit on the bench??

    Perhaps

    ..Haynes....Bradders...Kermit

    as an option?
     
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  3. Bitter & Malicious

    Bitter & Malicious Well-Known Member

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    Stephens is a liability playing deep where he has to do a lot of defending. He was last season and has started the same way this. Nearly gave away two goals against Sporting with careless passes near the edge of our penalty area. The fact he can look skilled and classy doesn't compensate. In top level football, far more games are lost through simple and avoidable mistakes than are won by flashes of exceptional skill.

    We triumphed last season through consistency. In Kermit we have consistency plus exceptional skill but as an average-sized Championship club we cannot expect many like him to come along. BWP, Green and Stephens have the skill but lack the consistency and I bet they occupy the three places in the team where CP is looking to strengthen.
     
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  4. SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious

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    AH, do you think 4-3-3 is the best from what you have seen?

    Stephens has to be the attacking of 2 central midfielders. He was signed as a ''goal scoring'' midfielder but after his injury (in which Hollands scored a few) he was pushed to playing deep. I'm confused as to how everyone could literally see this apart from the management team. Some will argue signing Clarke was CP's biggest mistake, but I'll say mishandling Stephens has been his achilles heel.
     
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  5. Bitter & Malicious

    Bitter & Malicious Well-Known Member

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    You need to be able to switch between 4-3-3, 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 from game to game and even within games. Sticking to one shape makes it easy for other teams to counter you or, if good enough, trump you. CP knows this and has stated it often enough. Hollands and Hughes' unfitness has led him to persist with Stephens in a deeper role. That nonsense should cease once they are both 100% fit. It would be nice to buy someone better than either of them but it seems we cannot compete in the market. No doubt we will pick up someone on loan instead. I can live with one loan signing. That won't rock the boat.
     
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  6. Hell Ben-t on Bradley Pritchard

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    I don't think this can be counted as failing. My opinion is slightly tainted by not being able to to Gills, but I fear a rather large overreaction has brewed.

    Chrissy knows we can't simply go and pound at every team this year & we will need to be more flexible, especially as when not in 4-4-2 or with our standard 11 we started to struggle last year, quality at that level pushed us through.

    AllHell is spot on, the complicated part is Kermo has been inneffectful out of these midfield heavy formations.

    I guess what I'm getting at is we will have no choice but to persevere with this if we are going to survive or challenge this season.

    It has opened up Haynes, given options to Greens attacking tendencies & will allow Jacko to not have to be an out & out winger etc. this could better utilise our players long term.
     
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  7. calydon_road

    calydon_road Member

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    Sexiest football I can remember in recent times was the 451 cross 433 we employed with bent up top and the others trying to join
    Mourinho mastered this with robben and duff .

    I can see cook and waggy loving this formation. Haynes also

    Anyway , been away a while so hi all and hope your enjoying the Olympic summer
     
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  8. WWOCB

    WWOCB Active Member

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    To be honest I thought the 4-1-2-1-2 against Gillingham was a complete failure, the players we have seemed uncomfortable playing that way (I.e Cook alternating between Attacking midfielder and Side Midfielder, whereas his best position seems to be as a Wing-forward). Despite eventually winning, conceding two against Southend this evening suggests there were weaknesses again.

    As I've said before (and others have said the same), Stephens simply cannot play in front of the back four. He loses the ball far too often and will be a liability. On the contrary, in his seemingly favoured attacking-playmaker role in the centre of midfield (alongside a deep laying centre-mid), he can do a lot of damage to the other teams defence, whilst having plenty of cover for when he does make a mistake.

    I did like the 4-3-3 used against Welling, especially in the second half. For the latter half of last season I suggested the following formation:

    ----------------Hamer-----------------
    Solly---Taylor--Morrison--Wiggins
    --------------Hughes-----------------
    -------Stephens----Jackson-------
    ----Haynes-Kermorgant-BWP------

    Whilst it seems Taylor is now behind Cort in the pecking order, and Hughes seems surplus to requirements, I still think something similar to this would work well.

    My reasoning being, Stephens and Jackson both provide great attacking options in midfield, not to mention both being goal-threats, and whilst they would be comfortable with Hughes playing the defensive role behind them, they are also both capable of putting in a decent tackle. Last season, we saw for the first half of the season, defenders doubling up on BWP, and for the latter half, defenders doubling up on Kermorgant. Imagine having to co-ordinate a defence to deal with Kermorgants aerial threat, BWP's unpredictability and goal-poaching, and Haynes' pace.
     
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  9. SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious

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    #9
  10. Bitter & Malicious

    Bitter & Malicious Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not impressed. Are you saying Curbs really thinks BWP would be a better partner for Rhodes and Phillips than Kermit or a couple of dozen others? Even Hayes would be a better fit.

    This team is very reminiscent of those team of the month selections by journos who have seen the players once at most and just pick names they have seen in the goal-scoring lists or remember as being top players once upon a time (like Phillips). I doubt if Curbs had anything to do with it. Probably some hack journo picked this team and slipped Curbs £100 to put his name to it.

    I like Cort and supported him coming in at the expense of Taylor, whom I also admire. But to say he is one of the two best CBs in the Division? You're 'avin a laff. How much would we get if he were transfer-listed? We would be very lucky to get 50,000. There must be several seven-figure CBs in the Championship.
     
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