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Spare Parts (F1 odds and ends)

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Masanari, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    I'm feeling democratic, wanted to know what the general feeling on it was. If you all want something I don't I'll just sit in the corner and sulk quietly. :(

    Basically would people rather it was for driver line up information, general pre-season speculation, or something else?
     
    #81
  2. Di Resta is faster than u

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    I've got a question how doe we gauge how good a driver is at the technical side of F1?

    We can judge thier 1 lap speed, thier race pace, thier wheel to wheel skills and thier tyre preserving skills just by watching them race.

    But how do people form opinions on how good the drivers are technically,

    Pedro De La Rosa and Gary Parfett being 2 of the main ones, along with Alonso, Button, Bourdais and Wurz among others, and these opnions stick but how do the fans come by these opinions?
     
    #82
  3. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    I think we're sort of stuck in a loop that anything 2012ish gets merged until the first test ....
     
    #83
  4. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I guess most people get an impression based on the opinion of those close to them, and comments made by the media. With Button for example, it's known that he likes his car set up perfectly in order for him to get the best out of it. Therefore, in order to set it up that well, he must be able to set the car up well, otherwise he'd never be fast. Beyond that I don't really know, one for Cosi?
     
    #84
  5. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Just found this amusing snippet on Joe Saward's blog. Don't always believe all sources <laugh>

    Some people hey...
     
    #85
  6. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever Coulthard and Brundle say is gospel? :D
     
    #86
  7. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    I know Alex Wurz was very good with the technical side, shame he wasn't so good with the whole driving aspect...
     
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  8. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the referal Canary. Part of the reason I take an interest in F1 fora is to get a feel for the way the things such as Sea-Man has asked are perceived, but I do not know if this answer will be adequate, since ultimately, forming an opinion is itself influenced by one's opinion.

    An incidental aside (since you mentioned Jenson Button)&#8230;

    All drivers like a car 'perfectly' set-up for themselves; it's just that Button has a preference for a very precise, idealised (by and for himself) 'neutral' car; i.e. one which he can drive with minimal 'side-slip'; the lateral tyre movement experienced during oversteer and understeer. Most drivers tend to prefer a less critical set-up which has a tendency for either oversteer (Hamilton especially) or understeer (Alonso especially), after which they will to some extent 'make do' with what they have. Nearly all drivers tend to go towards over/understeer; but Button, more than any other current driver, likes to sit on the fence between the two - literally requiring a very fine balancing act! This results in minimum tyre-slip and, very often, a corresponding extension of tyre life when compared to most other drivers who slide their tyres more. It should also be clear why Button sometimes finds difficulty in getting heat into tyres, because increased slip-angles necessarily generate more heat. Then again, Button's preference and ability makes him almost ideal for tyre testing!

    Back to Sea-Man's interesting question&#8230;

    My impression is - as Canary says - that most people form an opinion about drivers according to what they read and hear of the opinions of others - especially the media: after all, they have nothing more to go on!
    However&#8230;

    &#8230; A fair, relatively independent assessment can be guessed at by studying a driver's history; and in particular, noting how often and how long he or she has been employed in developmental and testing roles. Most drivers never reach the very top, but it should be obvious that some notable drivers who may have appeared to be below this standard, but persist, year after year after year - in various teams - are highly prized by all. These drivers will naturally make the best 'reserves' too. Remember that testing and development requires an incisive intellect as well as thorough technical knowledge and a metronomic ability to produce lap after lap at exactly the same speed and position on every corner, time and time again; and an instinct to register every tiny difference whilst instinctively knowing its cause. Speed is important, but it is not everything to testing or development. More than actually doing it, what matters is the ability to know
    how a quicker lap can be achieved.

    Some of the top F1 test/development drivers
    have been/are, in no particular order: Alex Wurz, Alain Prost, Damon Hill, Pedro de la Rosa, Michael Schumacher, Gary Paffett, Luca Badoer, Sir Jackie Stewart, Marc Gené and Giancarlo Fisichella - who found favour with a team speaking his native Italian - and a sparse handful of others. I suppose I should mention Ayrton Senna but he may have done better if he'd listened more often! Seriously: very few drivers have what it takes! Test driving is every bit as difficult - and technically more so - than race driving! Some also had/have the necessary racecraft to do the bizz in races too, but this in itself is not a significant factor to decide upon a test driver in a developmental role! It may also surprise a few to learn that Graham Hill was a far better tester/developer than Jim Clark*.
    [Edit: I should also include Fernando Alonso before I get slated here!] ;)

    It should now be clearer as to how to make a more educated guess about who - of the current crop of race drivers - plays an additional, highly valuable role in testing and development, more effectively than their respective team mate. All teams require it from every driver but inevitably some do it better than others. Not surprisingly, it is those who are technically accurate in every regard, physically consistent, highly and incisively intelligent, and have a natural commitment such that they are prepared to study the very finest of detail (sorry Kimi: you fall short here!).
    - - - o0o - - -

    *Clark's driving ability was so 'flexible' that he didn't really care how his cars were set-up! Hamilton is the most obvious modern day equivalent.
     
    #88
  9. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    It would be interesting to compare their early years, did someone set-up their cars/karts for them, or were they forced to do it themselves with someone looking over their shoulders, did their dad, mentor, continually ask for feedback and demand possible causes for it's 'misbehaviour'. I think if you're gonna learn to be a racer you have to learn everything about your car, a total 'hands on' approach.
     
    #89
  10. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    #90

  11. Nazara

    Nazara Active Member

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    #91
  12. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    I think some debris got caught in the front wing.
     
    #92
  13. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Chunk of rubber wasn't is (was is, wasn't it...)
     
    #93
  14. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    #94
  15. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

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    45/102, which I was quite impressed with...

    Didn't realise Trulli only had the one win to his name!
     
    #95
  16. WestCoastBoogaloo

    WestCoastBoogaloo Well-Known Member

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    Gah!

    I only got 40, had a complete blank on the 90's!

    I'll bet Cosi will get all of them in less than a minute.
     
    #96
  17. Nazara

    Nazara Active Member

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    I spent about a minute guessing how to spell Raoikkonen. Damn those Finns and their weird names :p
    The quiz needs updating though.
     
    #97
  18. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I guess the number of wins may be out in a few places, and Raikonnen needs a * next to his name, but other than that, nobody new has won a race for the last couple of seasons, have they?
     
    #98
  19. Nazara

    Nazara Active Member

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    Nope, just the usual five. :wink:
     
    #99
  20. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    And just who do you think I am
    Westy; Karun Chandhok??

    - I'm useless at stuff like this! :)
     
    #100

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