Off Topic The EU thread ... first 100 weeks

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by lardiman, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Don't take it personally, Lardy. Scotland voted REmain by a huge majority, and politically are now a different country . You are right about the financial problems which Nicola Sturgeon refuses to admit to, and hopefully that will sway the argument which was put very eloquently at the last referendum by Alistair Darling. But Brexit was not won by the financial argument, which was also weak, it was won by an appeal to patriotism, and the benefits to the fishing industry and the same could happen. Feeling patriotic about being Scottish is something we're entitled to, and it doesn't involve antagonism towards another nationality.
     
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  2. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    Sorry. Sounds like I take it personally I know.
    Maybe I do.

    I'm not much of a traveller in international terms.
    Never been to a sovereign foreign country except the Republic of Ireland. And I did not feel uncomfortable there as a tourist.

    I would have liked to visit some countries in mainland Europe, but never got round to it.
    Now it's more complicated than just getting on the Eurostar, I'm not interested in going there anymore.

    And Independent Scotland will mean a closed border.
    It is a closed border between NI and the ROI that I find totally unacceptable.
    A closed border across the Irish Sea is just as bad, even if it is not as visible to the naked eye as a fence with checkpoints.
    As a tourist I did not recognise a checkpoint on the Irish border once as I approached it in my car, and I nearly ran it by mistake.
    That really scared me.

    When countries close their borders, to me that sends a message that outsiders are not welcome.
    They might be tolerated, for economic reasons. But they are not wanted anymore.
    If that is the price for redressing injustices of the past, then so be it I suppose.
     
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    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  3. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    The only country I felt uncomfortable in was in Wales a few years ago when the started talking Welsh when we went into the pub. Mind you, the previous time I was in Wales Iwent into a pub and the locals started being really friendly straight away. Takes all sorts.
     
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  4. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57314680

    Come on UK farmers,
    We're about to face food shortages because of Brexit red tape.
    If the EU doesn't want to sell us their food products anymore, you can step in.
    Seize the opportunity - before the Australians do.
     
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  5. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    This was dismissed as "Project Fear". Farmers are suffering as a result of not being able to hire East European labour. I was speaking to the owner of Watts Farms recently, and she told me exactly this. She can't get Brits to do the work, and when they do start they drop out. I forget the name of it, the board which negotiated the rates for farm labourers, was abolished by the Cameron government, forcing wages down to levels which relied on immigrant labour. Farm labour was never well paid even before that, but it was a living for many, and now we're about to pay the price. Wasn't Brexit supposed to get rid of red tape?
     
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  6. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    Brexit is being wrecked by interested parties on all sides who have much to gain by putting things back the way they were.
    They'll probably win in the end.
    When that happens, it'll be the end of meaningful democracy in this country.
    Doubt if anybody will care though. We happily sell our souls for a quiet life.
     
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  7. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Active Member

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    The advantages of Brexit will be mainly felt long term. It can't be judged after 1 or 2 years as there is simply too much change still being worked through. If it lasts that long and doesn't get reversed, then 5-10 years is the earliest that it can be judged a success or failure.
     
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  8. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Most strong medicine has side effects, and it makes sense to read the accompanying leaflet.
     
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  9. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Active Member

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    Very cryptic black and white one. When the seagulls follow the trawler.........
     
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  10. Smudger603

    Smudger603 Well-Known Member

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    I still think a lot of people voted for Brexit to have greater control over the borders - it hasn’t worked , we had 568 of the little blighters come over on bank holiday weekend because the sea was calmer - WE ARE FULL UP!!! Ffs
     
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  11. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I'm no Cantona. But I can quote Sir Isaac Newton:
    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
     
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  12. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Active Member

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    Yes I'm sure you're right. Until we get really tough with this then they'll keep coming, but I fear that no UK government has the balls to deal with this problem effectively and by default we then encourage more and more to come here. It is unsustainable, but anyone who supports tougher action is labelled a racist, right wing extremist etc etc. We are heading for anarchy if we don't get on top of the population crisis - and that applies to the world, not just the UK.
     
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  13. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Active Member

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    Every object will remain at rest or in a state on constant motion unless acted upon by an external force.......like a 40mm cannon from a Royal Navy frigate
     
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  14. Shabby of Toad Hall

    Shabby of Toad Hall Well-Known Member

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    That [email protected] in charge of Wetherspoons now wants more EU immigration. I wonder how many will fancy the red tape and the people in the street telling them to fkkk off back where they came from in order to earn low wages to keep the pub chain afloat.
     
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  15. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Active Member

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    More people = more profit for business owners and the rich. That’s what it’s all about. F*ck the ordinary people that have to live with the crime, squalor, overstretched services, lack of affordable housing and lower wages that overpopulation brings.
     
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  16. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    That's what every government in the last 40 years has wanted.
     
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  17. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    Day 175 (or whatever)...

    You couldn't make this up <doh>

    The EU thinks it can stop British meat products being sold in Northern Ireland <laugh>
    And they're going to do something very serious (oh yes) if we don't comply with their high-handed dictat.

    Got a message for the Brussels Boys - Northern Ireland is part of the UNITED KINGDOM.
    Eurocrats have NO say over what we do within our own boirders.
    Not anymore.

    So EU Commission, here's some polite advice from an EX-member: Go forth and Multiply :emoticon-0172-mooni
     
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  18. Shabby of Toad Hall

    Shabby of Toad Hall Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that @Lardi is that the UK signed the treaty with the EU agreeing precisely that. The Good Friday Agreement expressly forbids a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, so the government signed in this agreement with the NI protocol, while telling everyone what a great agreement it was. Six months later and it looks like what it actually was - a hastly drawn up bodge designed to get the deal done, and now as problems arise in Northern Ireland, the government who paraded this as a wonderful deal are looking for ways to break it. For what it's worth, a few EU politicians warned that given Boris Johnson's reputation for lies and deciet, this would probably be what happened way down the line, and that the UK would shortly be looking for ways to ignore the deal they signed.
    Sadly if you agree a deal and then start to ignore it, the other side will assume they can do the same. When Gove was talking about the easiest deal in history back in the day, it was painful to listen to - whoever sat down at the table opposite the UK was obviously going to want the best for the EU, but Gove told everyone that the UK would effectively dictate terms which the EU would be obliged to accept, regardless of whether they got anything in return. I can honestly say I've never seen a negotiation like that.
    If there's a better way to sort out the question of Northern Ireland, it would be great. More than a few voices are now talking about a United Ireland a few years ahead, but that will be a kick in the nuts to the Loyalist faction in the North who kept the Tories going with their votes, and whoes rejection of every deal Theresa may brought back from Brussels lead us to where we are now. But the idea that the Uk can tell it's nearest and biggest trading partner to do one with no consequences is just silly. Joe Biden is now giving Johnson the same warnings the EU are. What you get when the PM is unfit to be a poxy journalist, let alone Prime Minister I guess.
     
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  19. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    There may be a united Ireland in the foreseeable future. The EU and the US would both like to see it, albeit for different reasons.

    The Unionists will lose, and pay a heavy price.
    But nobody should believe that they'll go down without a fight.
    That will be on the EU as much as on Johnson's Government.

    This could have been dealt with peacefully. But that would have required more statesmanship and good faith than No.10 or Brussels were willing to put in.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  20. lardiman

    lardiman Person up!
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    I agree with what somebody just said on Question Time;

    The EU is not being reasonable.
    Yes, they have the right to inspect / reject certain goods under the terms of the agreement governing NI.

    But it is clear that chilled sausages being exported to NI supermarkets are intended for consumption in NI.
    There are not going to be lorry loads of them slipping over the border into ROI or the rest of the EU.

    So the EU is blocking food exports to NI that it KNOWS will be consumed in NI homes. Not homes inside the European Union.
    The EU is acting in bad faith, wielding the agreement law like a club to beat the UK with - to the point that there are now food shortages in Northern Ireland.

    That is a disgraceful way to behave.
    And we cannot give in to that kind of officious bullying.
     
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