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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 15th September)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    So any future tackle that injures a player and they have to leave the field has to be a red card even if it isn’t a foul.

    Fuming..
     
    #21
  2. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Annoyingly we have a very good right back in Drameh but he’ll still be sitting on the bench for 90 minutes, we’ll probably see Dallas at RB it’s the way Bielsa works
     
    #22
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  3. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Every player in the England U21 team is usually a starter for his club in the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 or Seria A. Or Dutch League. Leeds Utd have 2 players now in Cody Drameh and Charlie Cresswell who only get to sit on the first team bench. Even the young scouse kid who got hurt is only 18yo and playing for the first team, yet we make allowances for the likes if Tyler Roberts whos now 22 and say hes only a kid…. My argument with the Bielsa system now is that we are in the EFL Cup and Premier League Cup and should be blooding our top kids to see if they are going to make it through. Getting battered by Tranmere and playing 15yo kids isnt helping. I may be wrong but when and hiw will we ever know how good our RESERVES are
     
    #23
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  4. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    Bielsa sees these lads in training every day. Just because they look good in an u23 game doesn't mean they are ready for the PL.

    Cody Dramah looks excellent at U23 level but he gotdone a few times against West Ham last game at u23 level. Imagine Saint Maximan running at him. If he doesn't play on Friday it means Bielsa doesn't think he is ready. I trust that as he sees his stats and watches every training session.

    Struijk came back from lockdown and looked a beast in training. Bielsa saw that and he has had loads of games since. It can be done.

    I'm as frustrated as you guys when young players don't get the chance to shine but they have to force it by outdoing the senior pros in murderball every week. If they do that then they will become regulars.

    I think it's a bit of a myth that Bielsa doesn't give them a chance. Oli Casey, Sam Greenwood, Davies, Jenkins and Poveda all got good minutes at Crawley and were dreadful literally to a man. Three of those are now either permanently gone or sent out on loan. They weren't good enough for Bielsa. To be fair they all got caned on here too. Just let him do his thing.
     
    #24
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  5. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    think this is most likely set up. ayling and coops did ok when put together last year. Love bill as I do, I agree, on current form it might be a blessing.
     
    #25
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  6. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    It really is about time these ****s could be held accountable:emoticon-0121-angry
     
    #26
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  7. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Not arguing with that mate, but why not use them against EFL sides where we play 6 of them in the first round alone. 3 in the EFL Cup and 3 in the Premier League Cup. Bielsa uses them in games against the first team and uses them in murderball so gets to see how good they are. i even said last week that Bielsa relies on first team player reactions to the U23 players and has mentioned the reaction Gelhardt gets, Greenwood and Summerville rave reviews from players and now Summerville is being noticed. So the first team are raving about the 4 top kids we bought last year, all 4 toped the stats for the league they won last season. Just how good do they have to get to stand a chance of starting in a crap cup game thats meaningless to the first team

    it seems to me that because we have a small squad Bielsa insists on having U23 players on the bench. This means they dont get to play full matches for the 23s and dont get used in EFL and Prem Cup in case they get injured. I dont see any development going on now with Drameh, Greenwood, Gelhardt or Summerville. Cresswell U23 captain hasnt played a full match this season yet because if the bench.
     
    #27
  8. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    yep, this is it ultimately - i appreciate the arguments that bielsa is very faithful to his 1st team squad - and also the argument that at some point you have to chuck the kids in in to see if they can swim, but the step up is huge. Likelihood is, if the 23's were outperforming their first team counterparts in training they'd probably be given a try at some point, so the obvious conclusion is they're not quite at the standard yet and we're not going to throw them to the wolves.
     
    #28
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  9. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    it does seem strange they weren't picked... certainly we'd all like to see them have a go against a league 1 team in a competitive game and show their mettle in man's football
     
    #29
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  10. Old Git

    Old Git Well-Known Member

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    Jimiel Chikukwa is poised to join Watford on a free transfer after quitting Leeds United, Football Insider can exclusively reveal.

    The 18-year-old forward was released by Leeds in the summer after being deemed surplus to requirements at Elland Road.

    Who?
     
    #30
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  11. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Leeds’ Rodrigo conundrum

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    By Phil Hay Sep 15, 2021

    Like most things at the Nou Camp these days, the interest Barcelona took in Rodrigo at the end of the recent transfer window was scattergun and haphazard. There were hours to go before the deadline when Leeds United received contact from Spain and even then Barcelona were talking about a loan. Last-ditch and doomed to fail, a plan with very high odds.

    The nature of the interest, among other reasons, made talks a non-starter. Loaning out a £27 million signing was nonsensical, it was too late in the window to think about replacing Rodrigo and in any case, he had already made it clear to Leeds that he was ready for a second season in England. Marcelo Bielsa was committed to keeping him too and the story died before it got going.

    The attention Barcelona paid to him was indicative of a few things. It showed, first of all, that from a distance, Rodrigo’s form and impact at Elland Road made other clubs think that Leeds might be open to cutting him loose. It showed that Barcelona, as a consequence of abject disarray, are no longer trading in the galactico bracket of the transfer market. But it also showed Rodrigo is highly thought of, well regarded enough to convince a Champions League club to look at him.

    He is well regarded by Bielsa too and Leeds’ head coach will regret the fact that in between talking about how Rodrigo can settle and thrive in the Premier League long term, he has twice been compelled to substitute the 30-year-old at half-time this season, and twice in Leeds’ most difficult games. Manchester United away and Liverpool at home were days when Rodrigo, in theory, was mixing with opponents of his own calibre. Instead, Bielsa came around to thinking that a midfield with Rodrigo in it was only inviting problems.

    Accommodating Rodrigo at Leeds has been a quandary from the outset; not because he is anything other than a skilful, imaginative footballer but because the established order of Bielsa’s team meant he would have to adapt in some way. It was not simply a case of learning Bielsa’s tactics or due to the fact that Valencia, the club Leeds bought him from, were not much of a pressing side but more a matter of Rodrigo having Patrick Bamford in his way. Rodrigo was a record signing at Leeds but Bamford was Bielsa’s No 9. And the balance of power up front has never changed.

    Rodrigo came to England with a reputation for versatility, a reputation which suggested he could play in various positions across the front line (and, as Bielsa saw it, behind Bamford as a No 10 of sorts). That perception might have been strengthened by his form in Spain which implied he was more inclined to assist goals than score them himself, the trait of a creative attacker. But in his last season at Valencia, almost 90 per cent of his time was spent in the No 9 role. If not quite a traditional centre-forward, Rodrigo was used to occupying that zone and shaping himself for it. There is little doubt that at Leeds he would prefer to play there.

    Bielsa’s formation was no secret when Rodrigo joined. Bielsa is more than 130 league games into his reign in England and has never picked a starting line-up which featured a front two. Bamford’s position at No 9 has been nailed down and protected by a double-figure return of goals in both of the past two seasons, a useful haul of assists and performances which earned him an England debut this month. There is no clamour for Bielsa to replace him with Rodrigo and no temptation on Bielsa’s part to do so. Which creates the conundrum of how to fit both players into his team. And the wider debate about whether fitting both players into his team is the right thing to do.

    Leeds’ best performance of the season so far, at home to Everton, was produced without Rodrigo in their side, something which may or may not have been coincidental (Bielsa had planned to start him that day, only for Rodrigo to suffer a muscular strain earlier in the week). What seemed clear, though, was that against Manchester United and Liverpool, Rodrigo was withdrawn at the end of first halves in which Leeds lacked a dominant shape and made hard work of retaining possession beyond halfway. So much attention is on Bielsa’s midfield, in part because of the failure to recruit in that area over the summer, and Bielsa is in the midst of a fight to establish a consistent pair in front of Kalvin Phillips.

    Rodrigo could not have asked for a better chance than the one which fell to him early on against Liverpool and the attack which led to it showed hallmarks of what Leeds want from him going forward: Rodrigo measuring his run into space inside the box as Raphinha sprinted down the right with the ball. His failure to bury the opportunity was a costly one but it is safe to assume Rodrigo popping up in those positions regularly would result in him scoring goals. One of the themes in two of his starts so far this term was a struggle to receive the ball in the opponent’s penalty area.

    The next two touch maps — the first from Old Trafford on August 14 and the second from Sunday’s 3-0 defeat by Liverpool — show the exact positions where Rodrigo took hold of the ball while he was on the pitch. Both of them show a lack of involvement beyond the 18-yard line but also an absence of concerted interplay in the pocket outside the box, the pocket where a No 10 in theory should be most dangerous. That was not solely down to Rodrigo. In neither fixture did Leeds play well and Bielsa admitted on Sunday that his system had failed to serve his attacking players in the way that Jurgen Klopp’s system served Liverpool’s front three but it supports the view that Rodrigo in midfield is not giving Leeds enough of a foothold.

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    Rodrigo’s touches against Manchester United at Old Trafford

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    Rodrigo’s touches in the defeat by Liverpool

    Burnley away before the international break brought more out of him. Leeds were better at linking up with Rodrigo going forward (graphic below) and he was involved in the creation of some of their best chances, varying his position more. Burnley contained Bielsa’s team for parts of the game, however, and Rodrigo was one of the players Bielsa chose to sacrifice with Leeds chasing a 1-0 deficit in the second half. Not for the first time, it was Bamford who came up with a finish and forced a 1-1 draw.

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    Rodrigo’s touches against Burnley

    The framework of the team at Leeds is not designed to accommodate a full-blown 10. Bielsa likes his midfielders to mix creativity with graft and to position themselves in a manner which keeps Leeds defensively sound. To that end, Rodrigo is as much required to be a centre-midfielder as a secondary forward. Opta’s analysis of his appearances for the club last season categorised him as a central midfielder in 69 per cent of his minutes and an attacking midfielder for just 10 per cent. He got a short streak of appearances as a striker towards the end of the campaign and scored four times in four games. That burst of form made him and Bielsa think that he would acclimatise to a greater extent this season.

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    At Thorp Arch they regard Rodrigo as a disciplined and dedicated trainer. Bielsa sees that in him too. But there was a feeling there that creating a consistent midfielder out of Rodrigo — even a very attack-minded one — might take a lot of persistence and patience.

    Rodrigo’s up-and-down influence, Bielsa said last month, was not the player’s fault. “I sincerely exempt him from any responsibility (for his impact) because in every game and every training session and in his private life he is impeccable,” Bielsa said. “He is not a player who is happy with having no protagonism. Any manager, with his disposition, would want him to be in the team.” Everyone wants this transfer to work.

    Bielsa is trying to make that happen and while Barcelona wondered if a £27 million forward playing out of his natural position was someone they could target last month, Leeds were wholly resistant to the idea of him leaving. But as Tyler Roberts took Rodrigo’s place at the start of the second half on Sunday, it seemed again that Bielsa had a broader decision to take over the best blend in midfield for games where the opposition’s system allows him to go 4-1-4-1. In plain sight, the advanced midfield areas are where Leeds have been found wanting so far in terms of the way they have controlled their matches. That is where Bielsa needs a greater weight of confidence and pressure.

    In getting it right, does he take the most robust approach by pairing Stuart Dallas and Mateusz Klich, at least until the results begin to flow? Does he stick with Rodrigo and support him resolutely or is the Spaniard at No 10 too much of a luxury against the Premier League’s strongest sides? Is Jamie Shackleton’s engine worth another go? Should he try and bring Tyler Roberts into the picture or does that simply create a mirror-image of the set-up with Rodrigo? Will Adam Forshaw give him an alternative over a sustained period of time? And is there a way in this team that Rodrigo and Bamford can both feature and do what each is paid to do?

    Bamford’s starting place is solid and rightly so. As hard as Sunday’s match was, some of his runs between Virgil van Dijk and Joel Matip in the first half were intelligent attempts to create space, looking for deft passes into the gaps. And Bielsa is blessed with a machine in Phillips, a midfielder who looks destined to improve again this season even if Leeds do not but, in between them, the waters are more muddy. Where Rodrigo is concerned, it is still to be proved that in signing a high-calibre footballer who other clubs in Europe rate, Leeds signed the right one.
     
    #31
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  12. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    ... a pretty accurate if lengthy assessment of the issue we all see
     
    #32
  13. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    It's just another joke of a decision by a bent anti Leeds Utd bias governing body.<grr> Football is already getting to be sterile and safe, 9 subs on the bench what a joke. Heading will be banned soon, tackling is now on the agenda. I wish there was a strong MP who could actually bring these ****s to account.<grr>
     
    #33
  14. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    No need to get upset
    The futures bright the futures subbuteo
    Play and make your own rules up as you go along
    After all everyone else does
     
    #34
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  15. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Reshuffle day today so a few MPs sacked may need Shaks new job
     
    #35
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  16. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    :grin:
     
    #36
  17. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    Give over they’d cock that up as well
     
    #37
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  18. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Reality is we went in against Liverpool with only one true midfielder in KP and they exploited the space that Kalvin desperately tried to fill behind Rodrigo and Dallas (who is great but has his limitations).
     
    #38
  19. Infidel

    Infidel Well-Known Member

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    Scouse manager learn a thing or two, doubt that he is a typical ignorant, self centred German twat.
     
    #39
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  20. Infidel

    Infidel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, well I for one are getting fed up and tired of it Ristac.
    Dallas has had his day, Shackleton has never excited me, looks like Klick is struggling? …….. but just a minute didn’t Amigo say he would walk into any team? or am I getting or got Dementia???
     
    #40

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