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Off Topic The Official:TV-Show-Movie-Games Thread

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by BCR, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I always liked the fact that both the original series and TNG used storylines to form a political and ethical commentary on events actually relevant to the real world.

    Roddenbury was a free-thinker wanting to raise people's aspirations towards a better world. Hence why he used such a multi-racial crew with a Russian as main man in the original series, and the fact that people no longer worked for money (not even on planet Earth) but for the betterment of themselves and the world itself.

    But in particular 2 episodes stick out in mind as absolute classics with possibly the most profound plotlines.

    The first is the original series in which Kirk and crew visit two adjacent planets iirc at war. But it wasn't conventional war. To distance themselves from the actual horrors of war they would take turns to select a group of people who would be 'deleted' clinically. The war had been going for ages. It was done brilliantly because its central message was that if war is done in such a way where it was distant and not conventional hand to hand, direct combact it becomes tolerable and therefore no longer a thing considered abhorrent. It was a direct link to nuclear war and remote killing, which is even more relevant when we think about stealth bombers and drones in particular nowadays. It is a FAR better episode than I'm describing and well worth a watch for the moral dilemma of war and its relevance to our modern world. It was ahead of its time imo.

    The second is in TNG where Picard gets captured by a nazi type Romulan (David Warner who played many different roles across various ST film/episodes) who tortures and interrogates Picard throughout the episode. It was basically "extraordinary rendition" but seeing as the episode was early 90's it was well before extraordinary rendition was ever a thing. A great piece of narrative on the ineffectiveness of torture, and ultimately a damning indictment of those who carry it out, by showing it ultimately destroys them more than the person being tortured. Fabulous stuff.

    And for those two episodes alone (although there were plenty like both) for me The Original Series and TNG remain my favourite.
     
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  2. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    stick with it. It's great imo
     
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  3. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

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    Chain of Command part 2. And Warner plays a Cardassian (sorry not Romulan). "There are FOUR lights"

    Its is one of the best episodes. Think TNG is the best at ethical and morality stories and has the cast to pull them off, I mean Patrick Stewart... TOS tries but can come across as silly at times.

    Think this is the problem with the more modern Treks (films and STD (I'd give Enterprise a pass cause at least it tried)) they forget that Star Trek is a Sci-fi to reflect ethics, equality, morality.
    The films are basically just action films and STD (even with its improvements) just throws Science words over action.
     
    #27123
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  4. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Stewart's finest moment of any star trek show. It ends with him talking to trip about it and offers a perfect contrast to his defiant final moment of resistance to the cardassian before he is released.


    I personally think you have to put the original series in context of the time. It looks silly to us, for example the two guys painted done half black the other white and hating each other cos the colours were swapped, an interesting of it's time commentry on the pointlessness of racism. I'm sure some **** will say it was a white guy with blackface as is racist itself... The point is you've got chalkboard painted sets and very little in the line of any graphics for lasers and they deliver 3 seasons of social commentry hanging fro the evils of fascism to women's rights(in min sorts admittedly) to racism and the evils of rampant capitalism.

    To be relevant you must make commentry on real world events.


    This is why , albeit briefly, homeland struck a cord. It failed as it was in the end trite and pure flag waving ****e that couldn't kill a character off not matter how hard it tried.....but it was relevant.. for 30 seconds.

    Now a days the closest to relevant you'll get on yank tv is a couple of girls kissing... funnily none of them allow men kissing.. It seems hot lesbian action is as far as it'll go. Discovery had a couple of the same sex and even make but as I recall season 1 they finally introduced the thing then immediately wounded one so the other could just fawn over him.
     
    #27124
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  5. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    <ok>

    I still think the original series had plenty of that because of Roddenberry. Do you remember the one I mentioned with Kirk? It was a pearler tbh.

    Agree about this, those things were the whole premise of the series, which eventually became lost.

    As for the films, Star Trek V had a good idea - the "search for God and who am I?" but just really poorly made - I think that reflected the time it was made (late 80's) where most films looked plasticy and the crew just looked too old. The scene where Spock's brother makes them each confront their personal demons is actually very powerful - and Kirk refuses saying he doesn't want to tackle his demons, it's what makes him human, is good stuff and some fine acting.

    The Undiscovered Country movie also a reasonably decent plot imo but descends into a predictable all action film and once again the crew were well past it.
     
    #27125
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  6. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

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    nerds

    please log in to view this image
     
    #27126
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  7. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Yes the point of number 1 was unintended consequences but it was more look at the toys we have than well made.

    2 and 3 were this whole revenge plot mixed with its wrong to manipulate nature

    4 was really more of a copy of1 with environmentalist stuff as well and there was never an explanation of what the ****....

    5 yes could have been that story but failed miserably

    6 was relevant as it mirrored the end of cold war in effect. Mixed with a who dunnit.

    The the tng took over movies and they barely had a story. Of note
     
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  8. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

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    The old films are fine, even the TNG films are fine as well, First Contact is an excellent film.
    I actually think Star Trek V isn't a bad film, but as you say its poorly executed and the ending is weak, so doesn't give you the pay-off you want after watching the rest.

    Meant the Abbramsverse films, action films rather than Sci-fi.

    I must admit I'm not as good on my TOS as the rest, I believe the episode was 'A Taste or Armageddon'

    Yeah I get TOS is a product of its age, I mean there is a whole episode about Space Hippies, and tbf its aged better than 'The Motion Picture' and a number of early TNG episodes.
     
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  9. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    iirc I read somewhere that 1 was directed/made by someone who didn't really know Star Trek and wanted to make it very "2001 Space Odyssey" -esque and therefore turned off all the traditional fanbase.

    2 was made to get the fan base back with the traditional, more familiar narrative.
     
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  10. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Yes, frankly tng struggled making troi relevant until they put a proper uinform on her and stopped making her fall in love but never give up the good stuff, they had no engineer of not probably deliberately and the crushed child angle looks trite now. They actually did well killing off yar as they designer her for feminist angle but she was wooden. Just a few shuffles of characters about made a difference.

    Frankly it's interesting that ds9 also crested a "strong female" then proceeded yo have her fall for alien and get married off too

    I'm sure janeway was a direct consequence of the critisms
     
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  11. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Makes sense as it aped many aspects. Kirks shuttle ride was basically a direct rip off etc.
     
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  12. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    Just watched Gotti, not bad 7/10
     
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  13. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Is that new or old one?
     
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  14. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

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    I'll tell you what its not Star Trek
     
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  15. Milk not bear jizz

    Milk not bear jizz Grasser-In-Chief

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    Imo that's a common trait with most of the best sci fi out there. Something that was lost in the Abrams movies.
     
    #27135
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  16. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    New with Travolta, it got panned by the critics, and it is a bit all over the place at times, but watchable.
     
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  17. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Miss3d it totally.
     
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  18. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I heard Travolta played the part very well. Don't know about the film itself but he got plaudits.
     
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  19. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    How you getting on with the OA?
     
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  20. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    Watched the first of the new season last night, very good.
     
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