Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    i thought jezza had sorted this **** out

    So far in 2019,
    Irish republican extremists have; Committed murder
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    Detonated bombs
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    Thrown grenades
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    Issued threats
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    Mounted gun attacks
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    Attempted to kill police
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    Threatened dozens
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    #44362
  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Read in Full: Jewish Labour Movement’s Submission to the Human Rights Commission on Antisemitism in Labour
    The Jewish Labour Movement’s closing submission to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission has been leaked in full.
    The conclusion – based on testimonies of 70 serving and former Labour party officials – damningly says “The Labour Party is no longer a safe space for Jewish people”.
    100 additional testimonies from party members say they have suffered or witnessed antisemitism at party events. Labour were desperate to change the final election week’s narrative – this might make that difficult…
     
    #44363
  4. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, I’d rather vote for Johnson and find him reneging one his election promises than vote for Corbyn and find him delivering on his.
     
    #44364
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  5. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully, I don’t think the Jews are as subjugating when it comes to women, or meander around London killing people as much as the Muzzims. As Islam isn’t a race, I’m happy to say that, on balance, I’m no fan.
     
    #44365
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  6. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    I see Brillo has called out Boris at the end of his programme this evening, still running away from it and no response to requests for the interview, the bloke is an arse to think it does him any good especially as all the other Leaders agreed and took part...
     
    #44366
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  7. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    There we go, Islamophobia doesn't really count.

    People with black faces aren't a different race either, Ubes.

    Nor are Jews for that matter.
     
    #44367
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  8. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    UK household debts see big increase
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    Image copyright PA Media
    Debts excluding mortgages are on the rise in the UK, according to the Office for National Statistics.
    Debts including credit card debt and personal loans rose 11% to £119bn in the two years to March 2018, according to the ONS study, which is published every two years.
    Average household financial debt rose 9% to £9,400.
    Much of the increase is a result of higher student loan and hire purchase debt.
    "The figures are skewed slightly by the £32bn of student debts - which the vast majority of graduates will never pay back in full," said Sarah Coles, personal finance analyst at stockbroker Hargreaves Lansdown.
    "However, even excluding that we're carrying £87bn in loans, credit cards, hire purchase agreements, overdrafts and arrears."
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    Median financial debt - taking the middle household as the norm, rather than dividing total debt by the number of households - grew 12% to £4,500. This figure excludes households with no debt and suggests these debts are not evenly spread.
    The poorest 10% of households have debts three times bigger than the value of assets they own, while the top 10% have total wealth - property, pensions and other assets- worth 35 times larger than their debt.
    "Not all these debts are the same: there's a world of difference between taking an affordable, low-cost loan for vital home improvements, and living on your overdraft month after month, because it's proving so difficult to make your salary stretch to the end of the month," said Ms Coles.
    "But if you're one of the 44% of people who see their borrowing as a burden, it's worth taking steps to deal with your debts."
    Budgeting can tighten up finances, but there are many free advisers who can help find the best way forward.
    Citizens Advice has specialist money advisers, while other organisations that can help include StepChange, Christians Against Poverty, Debt Advice Foundation, National Debtline and Shelter.
     
    #44368
  9. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if I'd use the word every, but I also have no interest in defending the Tories either.

    We're in agreement on this, although I suspect perhaps not on Corbyn's personal role.

    Fine with that, but I won't let one detract from the other, and Labour's issue is the more newsworthy today because of the quite damning report.

    I don't think we're poles apart on this one!
     
    #44369
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  10. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with people with faces that are black, gammon, yellow or purple with green spots, Strolls.

    The Jews are a little different because they've been persecuted in Europe throughout the centuries. Think Shylock in The Merchant of Venice. I reckon the Left don't like them (1) because they blame them for the Palestinian problem - not without merit - despite the fact that the Arab world could easily have solved this by now themselves had their plight not generally suited the 'cause', and (2) because they are generally stereotyped as being conservative in nature, money lenders, capitalists, insular etc.

    It's weird when you think of the Left's love affair with Islam when you consider that religion's record on sexual equality, homosexuality and racial and religious intolerance.
     
    #44370
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  11. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you don't have a problem with the colour of people's skins, Ubes. I was referring to your suggestion that Islamophobia doesn't really count because Islam isn't a race. Persecution isn't necessarily about race - there's really only one race after all - it's about difference, whether it be skin colour, sexuality, religion or whatever.

    I don't believe the Left has any love affair with Islam - I certainly don't, in fact I am anti all religions. The left would tend to support the persecuted, and where the line gets blurred is that their support for the Palestinian cause in the face of oppressive Zionism may spill over into anti-Semitism.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  12. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Come on then Johnson. Do you want it?

     
    #44372
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  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    tip of the iceberg

    NHS Fraud Squad: Catching the crooks stealing £1.3 billion from the system



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    As much as 1 per cent of the NHS budget is stolen by fraudsters each year
    • Gavin Heaton, Investigator for the NHS Counter Fraud Authority
    4 February 2019 • 6:00am
    Every year, close to £1.3 billion is defrauded from the NHS. It is a shocking attack on an organisation that needs every penny for patient care. What may surprise those who don’t know about the scale of fraud against the health service is how much of that money is stolen by insiders.
    Individual doctors, dentists, opticians, members of hospital senior management and administrative staff
    have all been found guilty of substantial frauds, swindling hundreds of thousands of pounds out of the NHS.
    In one case, investigated by Scotland’s NHS counter fraud service, a hospital worker stole surgical equipment worth £1.3 million, which was spent on lavish holidays.
    But these crimes don’t go unchecked.
    I myself have worked as an NHS fraud investigator for ten years. My organisation, the NHS Counter Fraud Authority, is the subject of five-part BBC documentary Fraud Squad NHS, being shown every day this week.
    The NHS Counter Fraud Authority is responsible for gathering intelligence on fraud, bribery and corruption, and, wherever possible, preventing these crimes before they happen. Before joining the NHS, I was an investigator at the Department for Work and Pensions for 15 years. I dealt with everything from individuals claiming extra benefit money for themselves, to organised gangs defrauding the system with forged cheques and hundreds of fake identities.
    At the NHS, the amount of money stolen can be just as significant, whether opportunists inside the organisation are behind it, criminals on the outside, or a toxic combination of the two. For the lowest paid, desperation can play a part, but highly paid professionals usually have no real reason to steal other than greed.
    Gavin Heaton has worked for the NHS counter fraud office for 10 years, returning millions of pounds to its coffers Credit: Geff Gilbert /Telegraph
    Over the years, the NHS Counter Fraud Authority has dealt with, for instance, the case of the dentist who wasn’t really a dentist. She had failed her exams overseas then purchased fake degree papers. To prosecute, we flew in witnesses who could testify she had lied.
    Then there was the senior manager who tricked her hospital into paying for animal sperm for her private business, a stud farm, by disguising them as legitimate payments for NHS items including a “titanium skull plate”.
    It is still surprising to see how senior staff members put their careers in jeopardy for relatively small amounts of money. Recently, one chief executive of a trust was prosecuted for stealing £11,000 by awarding a contract to her husband and trying to cover up that the work wasn’t delivered. She lost her job and was convicted of criminal offences.
    Most of our cases come to us via tip-offs to our reporting lines from staff members (the majority being very honest and hardworking), or the public. A patient might let us know that they have received an NHS bill from a dentist who has already charged them for the work privately. We see a number of cases involving dentists, such as one who stole more than £1 million by charging for work she hadn’t conducted and making claims for people who were dead or didn’t exist.
    My most significant case to date was the investigation of a group of perfusionists, specialists who operate heart-lung machines during certain types of surgery. The group was employed full time at Basildon University Hospital, but during their paid NHS hours, its members were working off-site on private contracts at other hospitals. They billed the service for 14,000 hours of work that they didn’t conduct, cheating it out of more than £1 million pounds.
    When the case landed on my desk, I didn’t expect a conspiracy of this scale. I could imagine one or two people being involved – but this was a large part of the team, led by the manager, John Mulholland. He was a well paid, world-renowned perfusionist, hired to set up the unit and decide what staff and resources it needed.
    John Mulholland was jailed for conspiracy to defraud the NHS after he set up a service through which permanent staff could moonlight privately Credit: PA
    As the case built, staff members gradually revealed how fearful they were of Mulholland, who some believed had the power to make or break their careers in the UK and beyond. He was a controlling person, but he could also be quite charming. Under his peer pressure, these intelligent perfusionists acted illegally. Had they been in another hospital, I don’t know if they would have turned to crime.
    We trawled through car park records and building swipe card data to see who was in the hospital when they were meant to be. We discovered Mulholland and three other members of staff were running a private company called London Perfusion Science, which employed Basildon staff to work at two other NHS hospitals on top of their full-time salaries.
    In some instances, staff would be on call at multiple hospitals at once. In others, they would lie about where they had been working.
    We brought in Essex Police and raided Mulholland’s home, where we found a wealth of incriminating information: spreadsheets listing which hospital each member of staff was at every day; an email that said: “We’re the villains, aren’t we?”
    The result of our investigation was the return of £577,000 to the NHS and four technicians – Mulholland, Ann Clements, Tom Cumberland and Martin Oliver – being jailed for a total of nine years.
    In a recent case I worked on, a fraudster was caught out when he went on holiday. Andrew Taylor was a locksmith at Guy’s Hospital, London, who cheated the NHS out of £600,000, which he used to fund private school fees and a car worth £27,000.
    ;
    Andrew Taylor was found guilty of fraud by abuse of position after he swindled £600,000 from the NHS Credit: PA
    Taylor seemed to act largely with impunity as the hospital’s sole locksmith from 2006, ordering new keys, padlocks, key chains and fobs without sufficient oversight. He was the first to work, last to leave each day.
    But when he was away on holiday, an urgent order came through, which led his colleagues to look up the main supplier that Taylor used: Surety Security. There was no answer from the number listed for the company and then, with a bit of digging, we discovered Taylor had once been listed as a director of the company.
    My team was brought in to look through Taylor’s company’s invoices, and found that he had marked up the price the hospital paid for supplies by up to 1,600 per cent, on hundreds of occasions. He bought toilet locks for £11.82, but created invoices to charge the hospital £78. Thousands of key blanks that cost him 17p each from a wholesale provider were billed at £1.70.
    As soon as Taylor returned from his holiday and discovered that he was being investigated, he resigned and shut down Surety Security. In court, he tried to justify his mark-ups, saying had enhanced each product to make it more secure. These included a 1,000 per cent mark up on a key chain. The judge didn’t believe his defence, and last year he was sentenced to six years in prison in March.
    It amazes me how people can be so greedy and steal from an organisation that is designed to save lives. That said, it is always satisfying to see them prosecuted for taking money from the NHS health system, which belongs to you and me.
     
    #44373
  14. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Andy Stewart‏@BrexitDoncNorth 4h4 hours ago
    Follow Follow @BrexitDoncNorth
    So how bad can it get in Doncaster? Tonight they attempted to ram my colleague off the road. Car spun, trailer smashed, driver in hospital. How bad? #Election2019 #Doncaster #BrexitParty #LabourParty
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    #44374
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  15. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Why no one is celebrating 10 years of the Lisbon Treaty
    The Lisbon debacle reminds us of how fundamentally anti-democratic the EU is.
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    Fraser Myers
    Staff writer

    4th December 2019
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    The EU marked a significant anniversary on Sunday. But apart from a small private ceremony of EU officials – coinciding with the official coronation of Ursula von der Leyen and her new team of commissioners – few people noticed, let alone celebrated. There were no street parties or champagne corks popped. There was barely even any press coverage.
    This was the 10-year anniversary of the Lisbon Treaty – the treaty that gave force to the EU as it exists today. You might think this would be an occasion for misty-eyed, flag-waving Remoaners to commemorate. But the circumstances that led to Lisbon are an embarrassment to Europhiles – or certainly should be. The period that led to Lisbon is a clear and unavoidable reminder of the EU’s fundamentally anti-democratic nature.
    The Lisbon Treaty began life as the European Constitution. It set out to consolidate Brussels’ power. Among many things, it would establish a permanent EU Council presidency and a ‘legal personality’ for the EU. It would also confer more powers to the EU on foreign policy. Ten member-state governments announced that they would hold referendums to ratify the constitution. In the end, only four were held. In 2005, the constitution was decisively rejected in France by 55 per cent of voters and then in the Netherlands by 62 per cent of voters.
    That ought to have been the end of the road for the constitution. The public of one of the EU’s major powers had called a halt to further EU integration. But even before France held its referendum, the consequences of a No vote were made clear. Jean-Claude Juncker – currently the outgoing head of the EU Commission, but head of the EU Council at the time – made clear to voters that their views were irrelevant to the EU: ‘If it’s a Yes, we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue”.’ After the French result came in, Juncker pretended that the outcome was somehow unclear: ‘I am still very much in doubt when I look at this very mixed response in France.’
    Instead of parking the planned changes, the European Council decided to have a two-year ‘period of reflection’. In those two years, it set about repackaging the rejected constitution as the Lisbon Treaty.


    Few even tried to hide the ruse. German chancellor Angela Merkel said in a speech to the European Parliament: ‘The substance of the constitution is preserved. That is a fact.’ Former French president Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, who was president of the committee drafting the constitution, concurred with this assessment: ‘The proposals in the original constitutional treaty are practically unchanged. They have simply been dispersed through old treaties in the form of amendments.’
    There were, however, some subtle changes which, importantly for the EU elites, could ‘head off any threat of referenda by avoiding any form of constitutional vocabulary’, wrote Giscard d’Estaing. Marvelling at the new text, he noted how ‘the Brussels institutions have also cleverly reclaimed the process from the – to them – unwelcome intrusion of parliamentarians and politicians… The [EU] institutions have re-imposed their language and their procedures – taking us even further away from ordinary citizens.’
    In the UK, the Labour government had promised a referendum on the EU Constitution in its 2005 manifesto. A planned vote was cancelled after the French and Dutch ‘No’ votes. When the Lisbon Treaty came around, the government refused to allow the public a say on it, even though it was undeniably the same as the constitution. Gordon Brown was clearly embarrassed by the debacle. He first sent his foreign secretary, David Miliband, to sign it in his place so that he wouldn’t be photographed signing it with the 26 other European leaders. He eventually turned up three hours later to sign it.
    Ireland was the only member state to hold a referendum on the treaty – and only then because its constitution obliges it to. Seven years earlier in 2001, Ireland held a vote on the EU’s Nice Treaty. The public rejected it by 53 per cent, and a year later the referendum was held a second time. In 2008, the Irish rejected the Lisbon Treaty. When the inevitable second referendum came around a year later, an obscure left-wing British backbencher went to Ireland to campaign against the treaty. Jeremy Corbyn warned that the EU was creating a ‘European empire’ and a ‘military Frankenstein’. Corbyn joked that No campaigners should not ‘scrap your posters because you’re gonna need them for a third referendum’. Now, of course, Corbyn’s Labour and its Europhile activists are campaigning to overturn the vote for Brexit with a second referendum.

    France, Ireland and the Netherlands had rejected EU integration but it was to happen anyway. It is also worth remembering that they rejected the EU when it was enjoying relatively good times. In recent years the EU has faced multiple major crises of its own making, from Brexit and the rise of populism to the Euro crisis and the migrant crisis. But the people of Europe were saying ‘No’ to the EU in vast numbers even before any of this.
    The only positive of the Lisbon Treaty is a clause of around 260 words that was never intended to be used: Article 50, which for the first time established the right of EU member states to leave. Now that really will be worth celebrating – if it’s ever allowed to happen.
     
    #44375
  16. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    No, he’d rather sit at home shooting himself in the foot.
     
    #44376
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  17. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    What about both having that right? It may be a hugely inconvenient truth for those who conveniently confuse anti zionism with anti semitism but if the variuos arab states, all muslim, had not been hell bent on destroying Israel for the last 70 years there wouldn't still be a problem in the middle east.
     
    #44377
  18. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Desperate days for Corbyn. He is now has a confidential document showing there will be customs checks between Ireland and Britain after Brexit.
    The Kremlin can confirm this. :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #44378
  19. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Corbyn planning to rig a second referendum in favour of Remain by allowing 2 million EU citizens who do not have British Nationality to vote in it.

    It's impossible to overstate the enduring bad faith that would engender if this tipped a second referendum in favour of Remain. Being forced to remain in the EU by EU citizens who may or may not remain in the UK

    I hope this dishonest policy loses Corbyn a lot of votes in the formerly Labour, pro Leave Northern areas
     
    #44379
  20. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    If the Zionist state had not been placed smack in the middle of those Arab lands by powerful Western states when the Arabs had no power, there wouldn't be a problem in the middle east.
     
    #44380

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