Off Topic The Politics Thread

I'm not making any excuses. I am saying what I have seen in that Video that the shooting of an unarmed person was OTT. Haven't people learned anything in the past few years?

 

just for additional information the mob "were forcing their way toward the House Chamber where members of Congress were sheltering in place”.

Seems like protocol to me for secret service. At what point do you need to take action when the armed mob are approaching all the senior people in the government.

 

Did they even stop to ask them a series of questions on what they were doing there before having a quick team meeting to discuss the best course of action?

 

It was an armed attack on a government building, therefore a terrorist attack. What makes it worse is it was a planned terrorist attack which was known about. As I've stated there is absolutely no way of knowing the intentions of those breaching all it takes is for one of them to be carrying a bomb and willing to use it... All this crap about the force on this poor woman is nothing but a distraction.

Why was the security so **** poor considering it was known about?
Why were barriers moved aside?
Why were they allowed into the building?
Why did Trump not call for the troops?
Why was it down to Pence?
Why was one request refused?
Why was there not more force used?

Even if you want to go down the rhetoric that good ol boys don't set off bombs, shhh don't look up Timothy McVeigh for starters, and it's the Muslims that do that, it really wouldn't have been difficult for a Muslim extremist to have infiltrated this group....

 

Clearly 70m Americans have learnt nothing in the past four years, if they can't recognise what a numpty of a President they elected!

 

You're not comparing like for like.
She could have been armed.
It was utter stupidity to carry on trying to get further.

 

Why was the security so **** poor considering it was known about? to be investigated
Why were barriers moved aside? there wasn't any particular large barriers, it was easy to move aside (from what i could see)
Why were they allowed into the building? you'll need to post evidence for this - a mob will be able to get inside if enough force is used
Why did Trump not call for the troops?
Why was it down to Pence?
Why was one request refused?
Why was there not more force used? If i was a policeman and i was outnumbered by the mob with better automatic weapons than myself then it's a no brainer, i'm not opening fire

i don't think anyone can blame the police in this instance except for a lack of preparation but that isn't the officers that were on duty on the day especially out in the open

 

Exactly right.

 

Bobby I agree those idiots were out of line and I also agree the senators needed to be protected. I just felt shooting her a close range in the chest with a Glock was only going to have one result.

 

did you want him to just ask to to back off or gently push her away? I'm not sure that would help.

Likewise if that's the approach anytime someone is unarmed (without the secret service knowing) then the new tactic would be to get a few unarmed people to smash their way in and open up for the armed ones knowing that force isn't going to be used to dissuade them

 

I wonder what the response will be in the future with other groups breaking into buildings with backpacks? We know there are plenty out there... I can think of 1 or 2. Will the police still be in the right then?

 

There was footage of police opening gates for the mob.
There's little doubt imo that security was purposely relaxed on Trump's say so.
Then things got out of hand and the secret service decided to act.

 

Anyway 4 people lost their lives and I believe the woman shoot was ex army. Not a good look for the US.

 

Context is a beautiful thing ellers.

If building was full of senior people and the people with backpacks didn't stop when ordered to then yes i would expect it and rightly so

 

How about a warning shot?

 

that would have been ideal. I don't know if you had thought of that originally or thought of it just now after a couple of hours debate but the guy only had a short time to react so i won't totally castigate him for not thinking of it.

Maybe this should serve as part of the secret service training pack as it's not a bad suggestion

 

I'm not blaming those on duty, other than from the videos the compliance and maybe allowing selfies with these terrorists wasn't the best of ideas. The major questions have not been answered and as for the last one, with proper preparation, you've seen the armed guard that was there for the BLM protest, the end result would have been totally different and they wouldn't have been so badly outnumbered and outgunned! Can't remember ever hearing of a US government building being outgunned by a protest! And this was the Capitol building for **** sake!

One point I'll keep to bring up is that all it takes is for one of them to have been carrying a bomb, be that one of the good ol boys or someone infiltrating the group for their own means, it would have been extremely easy to do and the security have to prepare for that possibility

 

Waving them in wasn’t a good look. Anyone who was part of it without getting shot was incredibly fortunate and should be serving serious time.

 

Admittedly, UK armed police don't use it. They seem either not to shoot or go for a body shot. No middle way. There's obviously a police reason for this.

It amazes me that the politicians sheltering could not get behind a stout wooden door without windows.

 

Not in America. It's like the Wild West. Now I haven't seen all the pictures but if Will is right that the protesters were armed to the teeth. Then I would ask the question, why would they be allowed near government buildings? Surely if some fella has an automatic weapon on his back they must arrest him?