Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    What's your point?
     
    #59721
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  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    With so many people leaving unemployment must be down


    |Migration
    ‘Unprecedented exodus’: Why are migrant workers leaving the UK?
    New study says COVID has forced up to one million from the country, but many people Al Jazeera spoke to cited Brexit as another push factor.

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    The study's authors said the exodus was primarily being driven by the economic fallout unleashed by the COVID-19 crisis [File: Tolga Akmen/ AFP] (AFP)
    By
    David Child
    15 Jan 2021
    London, United Kingdom – Migrants have left the United Kingdom in large numbers, causing what is likely to be the largest population decline since WWII, according to a new study.

    As many as 1.3 million people born abroad left the UK in just over a year – from July 2019 to September 2020 – the UK’s Economic Statistics Centre of Excellence (ESCoE) think-tank said on Thursday, describing an “unprecedented exodus” driven by the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.

    The trend was particularly pronounced in London.

    KEEP READING
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    The ESCoE said almost 700,000 people may have left the capital during the same period. If accurate, that would mean the city had lost nearly eight percent of its population in a little more than 14 months.

    The analysis was based on UK labour statistics.

    Authors of the study noted a high number of job losses in sectors that rely heavily on workers from abroad, such as hospitality.

    “It seems that much of the burden of job losses during the pandemic has fallen on non-UK workers and that has manifested itself in return migration, rather than unemployment,” they said.

    Brexit, pandemic fuel departures
    COVID-19 has battered the UK, killing more than 86,000 people nationwide, threatening millions of people’s livelihoods and plunging the country into its deepest recession for 300 years.

    But a number of people who left the UK last year told Al Jazeera the pandemic was not the biggest factor in their decision to relocate.

    Instead, they said, it was mainly the country’s tortuous exit from the European Union.

    Freyja Graf-Caruthers, 50, said the “threat of coronavirus” gave her the final push to depart England’s northeast for her native Germany in June 2020, after years of heightened anti-immigration rhetoric and political crises that followed the UK’s June 2016 referendum on EU membership.

    “I had made plans to leave the UK since the Brexit vote,” said Graf-Caruthers, a university lecturer. “[But] leaving felt terrible, after 30 years of building my life in the UK; it felt like ripping out my own heart.”

    Fabian Vella, a 32-year-old project manager, also cited Brexit as his motive in returning to France from London last year.

    “I am pretty convinced that Europe is a good thing,” he said. “And I didn’t feel like I wanted to live in a country that didn’t want to live in the EU any more. The pandemic just reinforced my willingness to come back to France.”

    ‘No plans to ever return’
    The ESCoE study’s authors said the exodus may be temporary, suggesting some could return when the pandemic eases.

    “But it may not,” they cautioned, noting a permanent drop in London especially would have “profound” implications.

    “Big shifts in population trends in London, driven by economic changes and events, are by no means historically unprecedented,” they wrote. “Inner London’s population shrank by fully 20 percent in the 1970s, so the recent picture of sustained growth driven by international migration is relatively recent.”

    Todd Foreman, a dual US-UK national, was among those who left the capital in 2020.

    He relocated to Paris in October after witnessing the UK “change for the worse” as it struggled to divorce itself from the EU.

    “I regard Brexit as an enormous and tragic mistake fuelled largely by xenophobia, misplaced British exceptionalism and shortcomings in UK democratic structures,” the 47-year-old financial services lawyer said. “COVID played no part whatsoever in my decision to emigrate … [although] it did make leaving more difficult.”

    Foreman was clear there would be no turning back.

    “I have no plans or desire to ever return to live in England,” he said.
     
    #59722
  3. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I was around at the time and remember it well. She was a disaster and completely stubborn. The Falklands crisis was sparked by her ignoring the advice of Carrington's FO who had warned her what could happen if she withdrew military personnel from the Falklands. She decided to do so any way. The Argies walked in. Carrington did the honourable thing and resigned even though it was not his fault. She kept quiet and didn't. The victory which followed was a classic case of a professional army going into battle against a poorly armed, poorly trained conscript force who did not believe in the cause their leaders had chosen to prop up the last years of their reign. At last her stubbornness and refusal to listen was rewarded and therefore emboldened her that she was always right and the electorate duly lapped it all up. After all who else was there? Michael Foot in his donkey jacket. Vast swathes of the country were put on the scrap heap but the electorate bribed year after year.
     
    #59723
  4. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    While I actually agree with some of what you say about Blair, and think some of the anti-Iraq sentiment is simplified 'after the event' analysis, wasn't Wilson famous for keeping the UK out of the Vietnam war? Or do you mean support for the US war effort in some other way?
     
    #59724
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  5. chinasaint

    chinasaint Well-Known Member

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    Quote from Britannica.com- profile of Harold Wilson
    Wilson steered Britain clear of direct military involvement in the Vietnam War, though he gave verbal support to the U.S. war effort.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Harold-Wilson-Baron-Wilson-of-Rievaulx
     
    #59725
  6. West WindsR

    West WindsR Well-Known Member

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    “I regard Brexit as an enormous and tragic mistake fuelled largely by xenophobia, misplaced British exceptionalism and shortcomings in UK democratic structures,”

    Shame on him for not realising how good things will be from some arbitrary point in the future.
     
    #59726
  7. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Typical short sighted yank
     
    #59727
  8. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    I agree w u about Atlee but he was before my time really. Also that the UK have had mainly poor PM's since him. All have been subservient to the US , except to an extent Thatcher who refused to listen to their attempts to get her to find other ways of resolving the Falklands problem in 82.
     
    #59728
  9. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    Who....Boris?
     
    #59729
  10. West WindsR

    West WindsR Well-Known Member

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  11. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    #59731
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  12. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Wilson supported the US in Viet Nam but played a line between the majority of the Labour Party being against any such support, voting against it at Labour conferences, and huge demonstrations against the War and any British involvement in it / and refusing US requests for UK armed support. He did however covertly send weapons including napalm to US forces, trained S.Vietnamese forces in Malaysia, and US special forces, and from Hong Kong intercepted military messages for the US. All this was not publicly known at the time but rumoured, suspected. He also tried to persuade the US from bombing and escalating the war, and negotiated to wind it down.
     

    Attached Files:

    #59732
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  13. chinasaint

    chinasaint Well-Known Member

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    As the post below yours (from Oslo) refers, although there was no British military involvement in Vietnam, there were a number of other ways in which the British were involved.
     
    #59733
  14. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    #59734
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  15. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Really interesting, thanks.
     
    #59735
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  16. West WindsR

    West WindsR Well-Known Member

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    Did he also do a dance?
     
    #59736
  17. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Probably when his team won, who doesn't?
     
    #59737
  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    #59738
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  19. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    The Falklands War was sparked by Argentina invading!!
    Galtieri was pandering to his electorate.
    It's quite a stretch to blame Thatcher for the invasion.
    The subsequent war and the way she ran it certainly bought her a lot of credit here, but Argentina badly underestimated our response.
    Their Ambassador was interviewed on the radio and admitted that they didn't expect us to send a task force.
    Her popularity was born out of that victory, but Argentina caused the war.
     
    #59739
  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Did you actually read the Telegraph article?
     
    #59740

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