1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Fail again. It’s you who doesnt understand.
    In Starmers early days he decided to be a Remainer then a Brexitier? He thought it was good idea to not support the government during a national crisis. He whipped his MPs to abstain on the Tier system vote. He chops and changes with the weather and got the name ‘Captain Hindsight’. In PMQs when Boris is in a tight spot he never follows it up with the killer blow. I can think of many more silly political point scoring games he has played including with the vaccine rollout.
    He is a cr2p opposition leader and people see through him.
    You stick to your stupid idea that all Tory voters a white 50+ gammons and keep wandering why Labour won’t get re elected for years.
     
    #63541
  2. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    10,769
    Likes Received:
    10,267
    A disgruntled James O'Blimey claiming that if the Labour Party was led by anyone else, it would be 20 points ahead in the polls. I said Lisa Nandy after Grandpa left. No one listened!
     
    #63542
  3. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    57,241
    Likes Received:
    45,160
    I didn’t say all Tory voters are white 50+ gammons but without the white 50+ gammon vote no party has a chance, hence that demographic being so consistently pandered to. I’m well aware why Labour are unlikely to get re-elected any time soon as I’ve discussed with you before.

    When he (or anyone) dares suggest Brexit isn’t quite all it was meant to be it’s met with an absolute barrage of nonsense about democracy. While I’d rather he stuck to calling a spade a spade, he has less hope winning over those he needs by doing that.
     
    #63543
  4. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    I’m not actually discussing Brexit here. I am discussing that Starmer. However he chops and changes his mind to try and win votes... bring out the flags!
    He should have principles and stick by his guns. I voted Brexit and will own it win or lose. I don’t campaign to remain and have a losers vote and then decided I am some brexiter.
    The were two fab posts on here a while back regarding Labour. One was from Staines regarding its true values and one from Goldie regarding the split in Labour. It would probably do you good to revisit them before belittling Tory voters.
     
    #63544
  5. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    22,267
    Likes Received:
    21,602
    With the demise of UKIP, the working-class racist vote has gone to the Tories. Starmer can't win them over, nor should he try.
     
    #63545
    Willhoops likes this.
  6. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Plenty of UKIP supporters were life long Labour voters. Again you miss the point.
     
    #63546
  7. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    57,241
    Likes Received:
    45,160
    It will be refreshing when you start to own it. Little sign of that thus far.

    The bloke has to try and win votes. That’s his job. We live in an archaic system where his opponent has an 80-odd seat majority with 40-odd per cent of the vote.
     
    #63547
  8. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    13,488
    Likes Received:
    14,910
    There's certain things Ellers says that I agree with and it sums up the state of politics in this country. Labour is losing quite a lot of support (myself included) as they just don't represent the people they used to. Jeremy Corbyn was a weak candidate who never seemed to fight back over the media propaganda destruction of him. Starmer really should be destroying Johnson after all the **** we have witnessed under this government, but he isn't and that picture is a cheap stunt and a waste of time, infact it's quite infuriating as someone who wants to see this government overturned. The Tories are all about themselves and their rich buddies, everyone knows that. Johnson is full of **** and lies on a daily basis, his ministers are some of the most inexperienced weak people I've seen in my time. BUT they can do what they like, when they like with little to no consequences due to the state of their main opposition. People will reap what they sow.
     
    #63548
  9. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    <doh>
     
    #63549
  10. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    57,241
    Likes Received:
    45,160
    Try debating.
     
    #63550

  11. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    I will when I have someone to debate with.... hang on Bob has posted something worth discussing.
     
    #63551
  12. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    I agree Bob, Labour should be ripping a new one into the Government but Starmer never goes for the big punch.
    For me Labour has lost its identity. It seems split between the old and new and is not adapting to today’s society or listening to its long term voters. The Tories seem to have moved to the right ( even further than I like) but they have made that decision and stuck to it. People know what they are getting.
    Last night I watched 10mins of question time and they had a fella on there describing Boris. He said for all his faults mistakes lies blah blah blah people will still vote for him. They know what they get with him whereas they don’t with Starmer.
     
    #63552
    bobmid likes this.
  13. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    13,488
    Likes Received:
    14,910
    As much as I want to I can't really disagree with any of that to be fair.
     
    #63553
    ELLERS likes this.
  14. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Nail on head Bob. I despair when I see the calibre of politicians on all sides but especially the Labour Party. But then I have ever since they royally ****ed up their chance to defeat Brexit. End result? It's over and we have to get on with things. TBF we are living in very strange times and Boris is reaping the reward that finally they got it spectacularly right with regard to the vaccine rollout. So what does HM Opposition do? Can't do much about Covid and he is right to keep quiet about Brexit. But is there an effective opposition out there to fight and argue the case for a fairer society? Only a fool would say there is. Corbyn is a man who thinks he is a demagogue (but never was, in reality) who had no grasp of realpolitik or any intellectual prowess or powers of oratory. Starmer should have but has failed miserably to show it so far. A time must come surely when the interests of minorities (some of whom are very small indeed) have to yield in priority to the wider interests of society as a whole. To me it has always been more important that people should be able to put food on the table, have work to do in jobs that will enable them to be better off than that they should be able to declare their pansexuality or ensure that they have an equal voice and representation.

    Blair, for all his many and obvious faults knew that the way to achieve greater social justice was to win votes, win over and carry the majority with him and introduce changes on a piecemeal basis. Keep the majority happy and prosperous and you can then take steps to diversify and increase opportunities for all. It's not bloody rocket science.
     
    #63554
  15. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    When Blair beat the Tories he basically did what Boris is doing now. Back then even the most ardent Tory (me :emoticon-0100-smile) knew we would lose to Labour. Our party had become stale and run by old Oxford bods in grey suits (mostly white men). It was time for a change and Blair picked up many floating and new voters. He had a decent team including a very good PR machine. Something I think both parties lack (PR).
    You mentioned Brexit and I agree it may have been a different result if Jezza actually committed to a side ( we know he was always a leaver). Maybe he was the wrong leader?

    Going forward... by the way I do always like a strong opposition. Labour need to do a bit of soul searching.
    When you hear life long Labour voters in Hartlepool say they are voting Tory you have to ask why, rather than have Labour voters on here say that ‘Hartlepool is a sh2thole anyway”? People can only call voters gammon/woke/thick uneducated for so long before they are actually the thick uneducated ones who really don’t understand.
     
    #63555
    SW Ranger and YorkshireHoopster like this.
  16. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Yes. As you know by now I try to stay clear of the labelling. I only have to correct you on one minor point of detail. I have stayed in Hartlepool a number of times and have some good clients there. It is by no means a **** hole. Cheap yes. Unpretentious most definitely. But the housing stock and inhabitants generally decent.. It certainly would not be in my top 10 of places I would hate to live. I think we did that subject a while ago but for me, Slough, Dartford, Maidstone, Hull and Grimsby at no1 would have to be in that list.
     
    #63556
    ELLERS likes this.
  17. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    I wasn’t referring to you regarding the comments on Hartlepool. I was just using that as an example of how people miss the point.

    Recently Mr Starmer was confronted by some fella outside a pub and was ushered away as if the mans comments weren’t worth listening to. Even Jezza (for all his faults) would have stayed and talked to the fella. This is one of the problems facing Labour... listening to why people are P’d off. If politicians can’t even listen to your gripes, why would you ever vote for them?
     
    #63557
  18. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    57,241
    Likes Received:
    45,160
    He was confronted by an anti-lockdown raving lunatic who made an absolute **** of himself on television the following day. There might be a point in there but that’s a terrible example. Starmer at least had the coolness to hand the bloke back his glasses rather than run for the nearest fridge.
     
    #63558
  19. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    35,613
    Likes Received:
    19,159
    I always find it fascinating the way those whose political views are to the left of centre left, always struggle to understand why so many people disagree with their world view.
    We saw it with the blind support of Corbyn, with supporters absolutely positive that the majority of people supported the own country hating communist.
    Then, when he suffered one of the worst election defeats ever, his supporters were left dumbfounded.
    They always blame the media, or the system (worked for labour under Blair) or "gammons" or the older generation or...or....or...
    They never seem to get the fact that maybe, just maybe the majority of fair minded people in this country don't agree with them.
     
    #63559
  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Sadly there are some who just mock or are detrimental to voters because they didn't vote the way they did... like they are of some higher intellect and know better. Truth is these people can't see further than their nose.
     
    #63560
    Bwood_Ranger likes this.

Share This Page