Off Topic The Politics Thread

With the regular attacks on the Beeb registered on here over the last few years, I'm amazed that nobody has criticised them for regularly shining a light up his arse on QT and giving him a soapbox on radio 4 from time to time. Is he really that interesting? Do they really not have anyone else they can ask? It looks like he is a subject we can all agree about.

 

Also............yet again, the BBC show their anti-brexit bias by having only one panel member being a leaver. Hartley-Brewer pointed it out to the ridiculously smug Dimbleby who huffed and puffed and then, wrongly said she'd been on Q time with Farage.

 

Why can't the BBC have a view on Brexit? It's clearly very ****ing stupid so I'd be more concerned if they didn't.

 

It's over, Col. The madness prevailed. Must everyone forever be defined by how they voted in the referendum? The important thing now is to mitigate the disaster.

 

If you don't know the answer to your own question, you really shouldn't bother commenting.

 

Not a disaster at all. Can't wait!!

 

It's a broadcaster, not an emotionless droid. It's not like they're blocking out anyone who has a coherent argument as to why we are going to be better off the way we're going. Just once it goes beyond sixth form economics, there's nothing there.

Hard Brexiteers may be encouraging us to blindly jump off the cliff but there's no need for the Beeb to do so to appease Mail readers.

 

You'll get your cheap 'taking back control' thrill, Col. Good for you.

 

It's this kind of condescending remark, along with all the nonsense coming from Junkers that makes us leavers even more certain that we did the right thing.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll all start going around in circles again so I'll dip out again for a while.

 

The circle is pretty consistent, though, Col. On one hand there are people with no faith, seeing problems and asking questions looking for reassurance and answers. On the other hand, there are are people with an abundance of faith it will all be OK but are seemingly unable or unwilling to give anything specific that will reassure the first group.

 

Junckers is the Remainer's worst nightmare. His demand for a federal Europe and powers taken from national governments by Brussels, compulsory Euro membership, extension of Schengen, enforced Middle Eastern and North African immigration and a European Army are the final nail in the coffin to the likes of Tony Blair who want to keep the UK in the EU by the back door.

Every time Junckers opens his mouth, the Brexit argument is strengthened among Brexiteers, undecideds and moderate Remainers alike.

 

Who cares what Junckers says, he pretty explicitly wasn't talking about the UK. Apparently we are leaving the EU, which is what he was talking about, but those who wanted to leave are still obsessed about providing reasons why we should leave. Lack of confidence? I have lost count of the times I've heard Brexiters say 'we were fine/great before we joined the Common Market, we'll be fine/great after we leave it' - and then whine on about the EU.

Brexiters control the government and the opposition, yet all they seem to do is moan on about people with no real influence trying to reverse 'the will of the people' and repeating all the pre referendum bitches about the EU. If we are so great why not get on with it, refuse to pay anything or abide by any EU rules, say we don't need a trade agreement with you outside WTO rules and go our own way. Because the people who can make this call are **** scared of no deal?

May apparently planning to offer major concessions on divorce bill next week, she has quietly dropped plans to make companies prove they can't recruit in U.K. before getting workers from abroad. Meanwhile Johnson making a speech tonight I think, setting out his 'vision' for Brexit in which he will refuse to pay anything more than £10bn and will repeat his £350m a week for the NHS lie. So much for cabinet solidarity.

 

I take it your joking about the "Who cares what Junckers says?", right Stan? Seeing as he's the most powerful person in Europe, apart from Merkel and Macron. You're correct, it wasn't about the UK. It was about what the EU may well become, which is anathema to most UK voters, including Remainers.

If that's the path the EU nations want to go, good luck to them (I say that genuinely). The UK wants a good working relationship with a stable EU. But I can see a hell of a lot of problems on the way for Junckers's vision. The East European countries have been delighted to take EU zillions to reconstruct their countries, but they don't take kindly to Brussels interfering with internal affairs like immigration. Anyway, as you say, that's not a UK problem - we'll be observers.

 

He's not the most powerful person in Europe, every single one of the leaders of the 27 member states has, under current rules, a veto on all the major changes that he was proposing. And many of them have the mockery of representative government that referenda are to get through as well. If Junckers vision is not shared by all 27 it won't happen. And even if it does, he won't be in charge, he's retiring in 2019.

Anyway, none of our business now. The relationship we have with the EU will exactly and precisely reflect the economic, social and cultural value we offer to Europe and the competence of our government/negotiating team. So in a year's time we will have a very clear idea of our standing. If it looks weak one thing I am confident of is that the blame will sit with the evil EU and the enemy within, and if it looks good that will be due to the brilliance of our leaders in the face of the evil EU and the enemy within.

 

Surprising lack of comment on the Parsons Green bomb. Looks like it could have been a lot worse. Seems like they've arrested someone this morning. I hope, if he is the perpetrator, they put him in a bomb proof bunker with his bomb and tell him to work on it until he gets it right and then test it on himself.

 

Junckers and the leaders of Germany and France are the power. Ask the Greek government. Other member states have been pressured and marginalised when they disagree with Junckers's Brussels policy. Ask Hungary, over enforced immigration.

As you say, it's not our business now - not directly anyway. Let us see how the UK and EU negotiators fare over the next year, crucial for all parties concerned.

 

But according to what we were told before the referendum, the negotiation and the future of the EU are not crucial to the UK, we will be fine without them. I'm with Col on this, I think we must assume that people who voted for Brexit voted for a complete break with the EU, or at least were happy with that as a potential outcome. I suspect that in reality a sizeable number had no idea of possible consequences, or the range of scenarios in front of us, but went with their gut, but we must assume that they are ok with any of the scenarios and will never change their minds.

What 'enforced immigration'? The EU wants a distribution of migrants already in the EU across member states. Hungary, and other countries, have successfully resisted this and will probably continue to do so. And if they don't like it they can follow our shining example.

This continual overplaying the power of the EU commission, which can put forward as many bonkers schemes as it wants but can only act on things that the Council of Ministers (i.e. the member states) and the European Parliament (directly elected, albeit Mickey Mouse given the quality say of the UK representation) agree to, reminds me of something. What is it?......oh yes, Project Fear.

What do you think of Johnson's 4,000 words in the Telegraph? Interestingly definitive in a wooly, overwritten, way for a man who didn't know which way he would vote in February 2015, but then saw a route to the leadership if he went Brexit and lost.

 

I wouldn't concern yourselves with Junker or any other current escape goat
Out means Out we will have plenty of time to make remarks about how crap Europe is in the future

 

The British PM's were also more powerful than Junker, and perfectly capable of vetoing his and other proposals, as they frequently did. Far better to have worked with other like minded national governments in the EU, which have been increasing in numbers and power in recent years.

 

I was referring to the current threat of enforced immigration. I don't see how anyone can say the power of the Commission is overplayed, when it is taking legal action against Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic to force them to take migrants. These countries are being threatened with massive fines, sanctions and even possible expulsion. If, as seems likely, the latest attempt at mass murder in London in Parson's Green was perpetrated by a man who was taken into the UK as a refugee, it will surely strengthen the resolve of the governments of those three Eastern European countries further. Their leaders are responsible for the safety and security of their citizens. Junckers couldn't give a toss so long as progress of his beloved project for a Federal Europe is furthered.

I don't much like Boris and haven't read his article, but I agree with what I hear he's saying. The EU are relishing being intractable in the current negotiations. That's their privilege, but it's notable that David Davis has now instructed his staff to spend half their time on a "No deal" outcome, and the German Car industry is urgently looking at ways of how adverse affects of a no-deal can be mitigated. I still think there will be some sort of a deal cobbbled together, but both sides have to be flexible and I don't want to see the UK paying huge amounts of money for the privilege of access to the Single Market, when we have access to it anyway.