Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa

Even Eric Dier has looked good at international level occasionally.

 

He scored the winning penalty in a shoot out - very few Englishmen can say that

 

Doesn't he have the record of the most headed goals in prem history?

 

Was he promising or were just we as fans excited to see a young player initially break through?

He scored on his full league debut which was a great start but then really didn’t do much. I became the board’s villain (probably still am ) and called it early on that he really wasn’t doing much and 4 or so years later I’m saying the same thing, though now I’m not the only one. I just think because he’s an academy product fans were extremely lenient on him which is to be expected but then it got to a stage where I feel fans were convincing themselves he was better than he was due to the sheer fact he came from the academy and was Spurs through and through. There was probably a hope that he’d be another Kane type of breakthrough player and that hope then clouded judgement. It’s brutal but he’s never really done much for this football club, had a handful of good games in Europe but that’s about it, been a dead weight for far too long and the problem for us now is that we have many other deadweights which is partly why we’re struggling so much these days.

I think you’ve also got Winks confused with Foyth RE Trippier criticism. Trippier was very vocal towards Foyth after the penalty errors in the Wolves game and even blamed Foyth for a mistake that Trippier’s himself made.

 

He genuinely did look promising when he broke through. Was forward thinking and progressive with the ball and didn't look phased under pressure. Since his injury he has lost all of these qualities, especially when under pressure, and even those fans such as me who defended him for a while and wanted to give him time have mostly given up.

I've said for a couple of years now that he always looks better for England and in Europe than in the PL because you get more time on the ball and the game is, outside of when you play a few select teams, mostly a bit slower and less frantic. Unfortunately with the game as it is in the PL right now, I think he's destined to struggle because he doesn't have the movement, instincts or first touch to find a half yard and play the ball quickly or get out of trouble, that the true elite in his position like Modric have.

I've persisted in saying we should keep him as a squad option for the last 18 months or so because our HG situation in the squad is very difficult for us to navigate, but now Skippy is looking like he's more than ready to take his spot and contribute far more, I'd be happy for Winks to be sold in the Summer.

 

Nah...was at Wembley for the Wolves and Man Utd game in Dec 18 and Jan 19 and in one or both Trippier ****ed up and then gave winks a torrent of abuse.

 

I'd say tackles are the primary way to win the ball back though. It's either them, interceptions or hoping the opposition loses control of the ball/ wastes an attack.

We stopped being a possession based side since roughly the last full season under Poch and it's why getting in a ball winning DM became pivotal. Hojbjerg was a real god send for the first few months of this season as his ball winning skills were massively important in Spurs initially having the best defensive record in the league for a spell. But as he began to decline, the defence became more exposed and our defence showed they're just too inadequate to deal with basic attacks, especially crosses. As I said in a previous post, I won't say it's the sole reason as he has made some silly decisions but Hojbjerg's decline ties in with being overplayed, Son is another example of that as his form dropped off a cliff prior to his injury.

I'd like to think that with us now likely playing once a week, Hojbjerg will hopefully go back to his early season form.

 

I disagree I don't think he did. I think many wanted to believe he was progressive or better than he was but he showed less than what Mason and Bentaleb had done before him. His game really hasn't changed since his breakthrough, it's just the perception of him that's changed.

He had some stellar games in Europe no doubt, primarily against Barca, PSV and Madrid and I think those performances somehow masked over the numerous dud ones in the Prem for far too long. In the very same season he shone against Madrid, I remember him being outplayed by Rochdale players in both the original and replay tie and was hauled off in both games - don't even ask me how I remember that, as I even don't know, guess I'm just a sucker for painful memories lol. I think it was around then that I'd lost complete patience with him so this was something that had been building up for previous weeks/ months, that season was only his second in the first team.

Whilst we can't be 100% sure until he gets regular games for us, Skipp looks like he'll be the player that I think many fans initially thought Winks was.

 

Gotta say I disagree on your first paragraph mate, he genuinely looked good. Not for a while mind, but he did. The whole Mason/Bentaleb partnership was different because they complemented each other so well for Poch’s first season. I think his game completely changed since his injury, he became so timid and is nothing like as confident under pressure.

 

I think he is also a player who looks much, much better when surrounded by better players. I know that isn't some sort of ground-breaking revelation, but his desire and general tidiness on the ball were made to look good by the class surrounding him on all sides. Now that he doesn't have that anymore, a hell of a lot more is being asked from him and it is at this stage - especially given his age and experience - that you're looking for players to step up and make themselves count game by game. He just doesn't do that. Barely influences games against drastically inferior opposition, let alone quality PL sides. And that is where Hojbjerg possesses the edge over Winks (granted, he is the better player technically but not by much) - his tenacity and mental strength. Even when he is running on empty, he doesn't go missing.

The ability to stand up and be counted even when things aren't going well is the mark of great players. While world class players are able to turn a game with a moment of brilliance, the level below that doesn't go missing and doesn't let their head drop. One of our biggest issues right now is that not many players fit into that category anymore. Maybe Hojbjerg, Reguilon, Lucas, and Lamela. If I'm in a generous mood I would add Davies and Vinicius, purely for their attitude. And Gio, if he was ever fit. That's about it. All 3 senior CBs cack themselves at the first sign of pressure, Sissoko and Winks literally hide from the ball, Dele mopes about, Bergwijn is head-down trying far too hard, Doherty isn't actually a footballer - there was some sort of clerical error at the FA, Bale and Tanguy only seem to turn up when it suits them etc.

 

This just reaffirms my belief that Levy needs to step away from footballing decisions.

 

Completely agree.

I’ve said similar about Dele.

Dele’s best football came when he had a prime Mousa Dembele behind him and a prime Christian Eriksen to work alongside him. Once Dembele began breaking down, Dele’s form became more inconsistent and then when Eriksen checked out and eventually left, Dele more or less became anonymous. He’s also never really shone for England either. It’s why I’ve never given Jose too much heat for the way he’s dropped Dele, it’s something Poch should’ve done when he was here. Kane on the other hand could play for Sheffield Utd and still stand out with strong performances and a healthy amount of goals.

 

That is hopelessly wrong. Possession changes about a hundred times a match and fewer than twenty of those are tackles. Since about 40% of Hojbjergs attempted tackles are fouls and there will also be some failures, he actually only regains net possession by tackling less than once every match. Once out of a hundred changes of possession!
The safest and indeed much most common way of gaining possession is to pressure the opposition into mistakes. Winks and Sissoko are better than that at Hojbjerg as far as I can see and it is a much more effective skill.

 

Man City have the fewest number of fouls per match in the PL. Less than ten per game so to claim that they foul every time they lose the ball is absurd. Less than one every ten times!

 

If you’re making the most tackles in the division that would imply you’re the one pressuring down the opposition more than anyone and/ or alternatively being in the right place to stop them. I think you’re putting Winks and Sissoko on a very weird pedestal and you’re viewing them in a different light to just about everyone else.

 

Peter Crouch

0-1 away to City

header to get us our first taste of CL football

always gets my respect for that

 

And then the goal at the San Siro, some proper classics.

Then he went and got himself sent off at the Bernabeu .

Loved Crouchy though. Funny guy, too.

 

Kane is world class though. I'm just talking about player with a decent skill set who simply don't hide when the going gets tough. That has sadly been the hallmark this season. The vast majority of points we've dropped have been because often vastly inferior opposition teams have just wanted it much more than we did.

I think the best recent example of what I'm talking about is Lucas. Never going to be in the same bracket as Kane or even Son, but the guy just doesn't let his head drop and he doesn't go missing. Same goes for Lamela although his injury record is obvs a major issue.

If we had 9 players with the attitude and determination of Lucas, plus Kane and Son, we'd be flying.

I don't mind so much that many players are clearly very limited. What pisses me off is how they saunter around game on game clearly not giving a ****. And over a longer period of time this sauntering manifests in that player not showing one iota of improvement. They literally peak in their early 20's and plateau for the next decade. Dele, Winks, Sissoko, Dier and Sanchez all fit into that category. Aurier isn't far behind. Bergwijn is in danger of slipping into it if he isn't careful.

And yes, Dele is proof that you can have all the talent in the world. If your head and heart aren't in the right place, you're just an english Adel Taarabt.

 

Has he ? Goes to show I know **** all about football

 

Just putting an alternative point of view. I think all three of them are somewhere between the 25th and 75th best midfield players in the world and it is very hard to judge which is better.
I think Hojbjerg is often forced into tackling or fouling because he is out of position.