Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Newcastle United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. C. Kane

    C. Kane Well-Known Member

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    Correct. No idea why but youtube's algorithm decided to service me with a bunch of highlight clips from the Spurs v Inter Legends match at the new stadium in what was the second test event iirc. Levy's body language when talking to Maureen (who 'managed' Inter that game) is about as close to a teenager trying to ask his crush to the prom as you'll ever see from a 59 year old multi-millionaire businessman. He was genuinely star struck.

    I am convinced that the decision to appoint Maureen was more or less sealed there and then. From that point on, it was a matter of when rather than if. There was no way he would have sacked Poch after the miracle of reaching the CL final, so he pulled the trigger at the first run of poor results. The decision had nothing to do with Levy listening to what HBIC calls the "lunatic fringe" and everything to do with the fact that in two decades, he has made 3 good managerial appointments, one of whom was a complete accident engineered by a DoF who actually understood football.

    And now here we are, 18 months, 9 signings and £80m down the road, and it feels like we have gone round in one big painful circle. Because as Poch made abundantly clear months before he left, the squad was 3 years overdue an overhaul and that overhaul would therefore be extremely painful.
     
    #221
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  2. donotputinmicrowave

    donotputinmicrowave Active Member

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    Same spineless players that gave up for Poch have now given up for Mourinho. Don't know why anyone thinks another change in manager will solve anything. Jose has said from day 1 (watch the doc) that the players' mentality is ****e. If a manager with his win record (EL at Man Utd!!) can't change it, no one will.
     
    #222
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  3. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    His time at the top is done. He’s not a great motivator or tactician anymore.

    Spurs problems go deeper than Mourinho but getting rid of him would be a step in the right direction
     
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  4. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    We’re doing as well as can be expected considering the outlay on the team

    we are about where we deserve to be
     
    #224
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  5. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    His ego gets in the way now.
    In the past, it may have given him an edge.
    He is a spent force, I think - at an age when many of the great managers were at their peak or perhaps hadn't yet reached it.
     
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  6. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    According to the financial league, maybe.
    But the squad strength under Poch was up there with the top two or three teams for 3-4 years.
    The outlay since has reflected a team competing for 5th or 6th rather than aiming to stay at that higher level.
    The chances of competing at the top end without committing the funds required to maintain the quality in the squad required were always going to be slim. The likelihood of finding another Alli or Eriksen or Vertonghen for modest fees was poor.
     
    #226
  7. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    That was 3/4 years ago...not now.

    Too many busted flushes now and not enough like for like activity in the transfer market to replace quality from our frugal owners. The defence needs replacing...can’t run away from that. Wanted Skrinrar, got in Rodon....you see the pattern I’m sure.
     
    #227
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  8. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Bollocks.

    He's got Harry Kane and Sonny up top, along with loads of international support players, a very decent goalkeeper and whilst the midfield and defence needs major surgery, when they play their games in hand, we're going to be below Everton and West Ham.

    Is our defence ****?

    Yes.

    Would it help matters if we stopped defending as soon as we're one goal up?

    Obviously.

    Rightfully, he should be getting sacked pretty soon, but because Levy's majorly ****ed up in appointing him and paying him a ridiculous salary, we're currently stuck with the toxic, lame ****er. Any other manager would have been told to clear his desk a long time ago.

    He's underperformed, been repeatedly stupid in his tactics and is now falling out with the majority of the players. Many of us predicted all of this...and he hasn't disappointed us.
     
    #228
  9. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    While I don't think Mourinho was the right appointment, I don't think he is bad enough to be sacked. We've still got the chance of a trophy and CL qualification. We have the misfortune in competing in a league where four clubs have more resources than us. We are catching up but that is a slow process. Fifth and a cup final is about par for the course. We've actually over achieved under every manager Levy has appointed. We've played poor football for three seasons now but that hasn't resulted in the very poor outcomes that each of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool have had in at least once season.
     
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  10. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    While condemning the abuse of Sanchez goes without saying, he wasn't by any means the only one at fault yesterday. We needed three mistakes to give away the first goal: a poor clearance under no pressure from Tanganga which was deflected to Sanchez who had little time but should have done better. Then a terrible attempt at a tackle by Hojbjerg. I would have apportioned blame 40 % Tanganga, 50% Hojbjerg, 10% Sanchez. Sanchez also made a number of good blocks and clearances. Hojbjerg again didn't impress me yesterday. We had no midfield control at all. The double chance for Gayle came from Hojbjerg making a derisory attempt to block the pass in. He was also nowhere to be seen for their second goal. He is supposed to be our main defensive midfielder. Surely marking Willock was his responsibility? Instead he is wandering round near the penalty spot.
     
    #230
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  11. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Your vendetta against Hojbjerg continues
     
    #231
  12. C. Kane

    C. Kane Well-Known Member

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    He is a massively overrated player who wins plaudits because he runs around a lot and shows passion, sadly a rarity in the modern game.

    Whilst he had a very good opening few months, now that fatigue has set in and/or opposition sides have begun to work him out, the reality seems that he is a very slight upgrade on Winks when what we really needed was a replacement for 2017 Wanyama. Hojbjerg is miles away from that.

    I don't think PS has a 'vendetta'. I think he, myself and a steadily growing number of posters here are looking beyond the running around and 'being everywhere' and wondering what he actually brings to the table. Our win percentage with him in the side is certainly worrying.
     
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  13. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    Cant under estimate the poor condition of a body that requires major surgery.

    If that was Poch we would have all been saying...see this is the ‘painful rebuild’ he was talking about and obviously it’s going to take us a hell of a lot longer considering who is running this ship(ENIC) and the financial layout.

    You shouldn’t ignore when a player(Kane) says that they can’t help but try to over protect a **** defence that crumbles under pressure once we go a goal ahead ...Kane said this a while back...why ignore him? Lloris pointed the finger at individuals about 2 games ago...why ignore this now?

    I refuse to believe 100% that the manager is telling the players to sit back and protect single goal leads with more than 2/3 of the game to go.

    He’s the easiest person to point the finger at...sack him/keep him, makes no difference because our DNA stinks and that is, like him or not probably unfamiliar territory for a manager who has managed clubs with players oozing in winning mentality, I’m not surprised he’s struggling to cope with the mid to low silverware expectancies that run through the club and the bulk of the players mentalities...it’s a real clash of personalities in that sense. The way he is dealing with it is a bit awkward for some but I’m fine with it...call the **** out and make them get out...which bit was supposed to be ‘painful’ as uttered by Poch? It’s no coincidence to me that I’ve heard Lloris and Kane indirectly lambasting their peers recently. I don’t see the top players looking like they are ‘not’ playing for him...it’s the ones that always do the brain farts that look like it...you want to put that down to bad management, I don’t. His bad management is not affecting our elite players, why’s that? It’s the weak ones.

    we concede more goals than anyone else in the last 10 minutes of games...if you’ve kicked a ball in your life and played a game(as I’m sure you have) then you know the last 10 minutes require lots of mental toughness to navigate through even at grass roots level so imagine the pressure at that level and then watch us crumble to suggest it’s a weak mentality. Why does ‘mental weakness’ always creep into the summary of our season regardless of who is our manager?

    Like I said...you’re deluded if you think this squad is better than what it’s showing you after 38 games, not after 4, 27, 25 or 30...they will be exactly where they deserve to be after 38 and if they are a few notches below the 2/3rd place finishes they managed to achieve under Poch when they were fresh and hungry then it’s just about right that 3/4 years on they have slipped down a few places...we are at a rebuild stage...but don’t expect much when rebuilds consist of a loan here and there and the odd bit of potential. You think I haven’t been watching football for the last 10 years? It’s no co incidence that the teams that buy the quality and are serious and proud of achieving silverware are the ones that are at the top.

    We sit in 5th this morning...you think we should be above Chelsea, United, Lestr? If so I dont know why plus Chelsea aren’t that far off us with 8 to go.

    Jose or Nagelslol...some of these players haven’t got what is required and don’t deserve a 3rd manager to prove me right. Kane is sending hints of late about this squad and once again you can’t argue that he is having his best season to date. By now we should have built a great team around a gem like Kane...he’s smashing the individual records but the team ones haven’t even got started...I wonder why.
     
    #233
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  14. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    RCL has done excellent work in documenting the extent of his failures in individual matches, so, I'll not bother doing a worse job.

    The fact is that we're in the final throes of 'The Mourinho Cycle'. We've had a player leave the stadium at half time after trying to fight the captain, then we've had the captain give a post-match interview detailing that the players are falling out with each other. Yesterday, he threw the lot of them under the bus and abdicated responsibility for being outplayed and outfought by a Newcastle team who recorded their best match stats in SEVEN YEARS.

    Slowly but surely, we're getting to see him in all his unpleasantness. All we need now is him recounting what he's won elsewhere after we get beasted in the League Cup Final, and we'll have had the pleasure of getting the lot.

    If fans were allowed in the new stadium, he wouldn't be.
     
    #234
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  15. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    Exactly that, some people keep saying it’s same old Spurs (maybe it is) but it’s definitely same old Mourinho. It always ends sour with him at clubs but somehow he manages to get people to forget this and still gets another well paid job in the future

    I’ve said it a million times, the day he leaves Spurs will be a good day for the club I support.
     
    #235
  16. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Could it be that we were in winning positions, in the last 10 minutes, against...

    Newcastle (H)
    West Ham (H)
    Palace (A)
    Wolves (A)
    Fulham (H)
    Newcastle (A)

    Make no mistake, we had those teams beaten...and we would have won them all if we hadn't given them the ball and territory and let them come at us...and we'd be second. SECOND...even taking into account some of the even worse performances. I'm not going to go into the losses to Leicester (H), Liverpool (H), Brighton (A)...Dear ****ing god, West Ham (A), Arsenal (A) and whatever the **** happened against Zagreb (A).

    He's done and Levy'd be best advised not to test letting fans have their say...I'd pay top dollar for a ticket, just to show how displeased I am with the pair of them.
     
    #236
  17. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    The argument is that the players are wasters who are lacking the fight to sustain winning positions. The counter argument is that the manager is not employing the talent available to him.

    It's all subjective, of course but what I see is a bit of both. The players run around but look to have little idea where they are going or even what way to face. Kane is excluded from these comments his performances are a team apart. The lack of apparent organisation is surely down to Jose. On the other hand we are often second to the ball and this is a syndrome I have seen with Spurs for many years. When we play teams like City, Liverpool or United we have often been a poor second to the ball going back to the 80's, you might expect that but not when we play teams like Palace or Stoke or Burnley. Somewhere deep in the club culture is an emphasis on ball skills (fine) but less emphasis on fighting spirit. There have been periods when we have had fighters in the team Ledley King, Woodgate and Dawson spring to mind and currently Vertonghen and Toby in their pomp. In midfield of course Modric and Davids, and Dembele and all too briefly Wanjama. I am sure you can all name other individual fighters but overall we have not had enough of these guys. Us fans may be partly to blame because we always talk up the 'attractive football' side of Spurs and can easily forget that the finishing touch to our great 60's team was Dave Mackay and he is exactly the kind of player this current team lacks. I thought Hojbjerg was that man and I still haven't given up on him, it maybe just fatigue.
    We should give some leeway to the fact that we had more players on International duty (with all the travel) than Newcastle. You could see the same syndrome with Chelsea against West Brom.

    But all that aside we should still see evidence of a game plan or more importantly a team plan. It's what you need when you are a little below par, for whatever reason. Apart from , all players must attack and defend, I don't see one and I still think that if we played to our attacking strengths and gave Kane Son Bale & Luca a consistent run we would have less worries about the naïve defence behind them. With our forward line other teams should be worrying not us.
     
    #237
  18. The Changing Man

    The Changing Man Well-Known Member

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    I am not having any of this Jose abdicating the blame bullshit - 5 of the 11 starters are his players - that is players that he signed or has promoted. He made the half time substitution that wasn't really needed, Vini though not brilliant had done his job adequately and was allowing Harry to play with a lot of freedom. It was Jose who chose to replace Vini with the out of form and returning from injury Son and not the in form and fully fit Bale or Lamela with predictable results.
     
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  19. C. Kane

    C. Kane Well-Known Member

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    I see where you're coming from, but as Brian and RCL have said many of us predicted what we're now seeing from day 1 in intricate detail. This isn't a hindsight thing. This is a culmination of the sheer illogic in appointing this manager to oversee the long anticipated rebuild.

    I don't think many fans disagree that so many of these players are done and need replacing.

    I think fewer, but still a majority of fans, agree that Poch wasn't the right person to do it, after widespread reports of a broken changing room and a disastrous summer transfer window.

    But what logic was there in appointing Maureen? I'd be more inclined to agree with your viewpoint if he hadn't crashed so badly with Chelsea and United before joining us. He was already damaged goods whose track record of success was based on inheriting a top quality team in its prime plus an open cheque book. We had neither of these. In fact you'd need to go back to his CL win at Porto in 2004 for the last time he achieved success with an underdog. So by logical extension should we be looking at Arsene Wenger based on his extraordinary successes in the same year?

    Whichever way you slice this, either Levy deluded himself that Maureen doesn't need an unlimited budget, or he deluded himself that the squad Maureen inherited was good enough 'as was' to challenge for the title and CL trophy. Either way, that is shockingly bad lack of foresight.

    So yes, the finger needs to be pointed at Levy specifically and ENIC generally. But reality is we are probably stuck with them for the foreseeable future as i can't see anyone buying the club with no CL football and the global economy down the pan. Levy gambled on a shortcut to success and it has backfired spectacularly.

    EDIT: And as TCM has pointed out, after 3 transfer windows have we seen any evidence that Maureen knows how to rebuild a team? Aside from limited returns from Reg and Hojbjerg, the evidence points to a resounding 'no'.
     
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  20. The Changing Man

    The Changing Man Well-Known Member

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    If we take the point that they gave up for Poch as after the Burnley game in the 2018/19 season - Then from Yesterdays starting 11 you are pointing the finger at Kane, Lloris, Son, Lucas and Sanchez! Big call that
     
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