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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Sheffield United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I didn't see the City one, as I've already stated. That's not the rule, though.
    Liverpool scored against City with a handball in the buildup.
    please log in to view this image
     
    #241
  2. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    VAR is killing football and unless the brass at the top realise that sooner rather than later, there won't be a sport any more (if there still is anyway).

    It was brought in to remove the inconsistencies when in fact it's added to them.

    Give or take, pre-VAR a team would be pissed off with roughly 3-4 really bad calls a season by the refs. With VAR it's probably now 7-8 despite the fact it was meant to eradicate them. The common sense factor has been eliminated and in a human sport, you need common sense. I do my best to not talk about decisions these days as they just tend to wind me up but our goal today should've stood, was ****ing disgraceful to be chalked off.

    It's sickening to have second thoughts as to whether you should celebrate a goal nowadays, as a season ticket holder it's completely sucked out the joy of being at matches for me. I'm already unhappy with things going on at my club and VAR is just multiplying the problems.

    I may even contemplate fobbing it off soon, I've said in the past that with rising ticket prices it was testing my patience and loyalty and now with VAR, it feels like I'm paying more money for less enjoyment.
     
    #242
  3. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    It is the rule though, it doesn't mention a defender assisting the attacker <laugh>

    Seriously, look at the actual new rule, not some 1990 rule book (not aimed at you) :emoticon-0100-smile
     
    #243
  4. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    **** decisions in real time are irritating but **** decisions with the aid of a replay from every angle known to mankind and wasting 5 minutes of my life is simply taking the piss.
     
    #244
  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    We've gone over this. The Law actually states that you either have to score or create a goalscoring opportunity. Moura did neither.
     
    #245
  6. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    I hate it...take today as an example...text to my son

    ‘hahaha we’ve equalized already’

    followed by

    ‘scratch that...handball..var’

    Son’s reply

    ‘LOL’

    I was an advocate initially but the technology is being used all wrong, sick of it.

    Refs are hiding behind it
     
    #246
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  7. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    How did the ball get to the scorer, was it off Mouras arm?
    What created the goal scoring opportunity?
     
    #247
  8. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    The defender kicking the ball off Moura's back. He touched it with his arm before that, as he fell to the floor from a foul or three.
     
    #248
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  9. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    It came off the top of his arm.
    I hate it, you hate it but rules are rules. Don't blame the refs for this, don't blame VAR for this and of all people don't blame me :grin:

    Somebody that has played the game at least once in their lifetime needs to get involved in rule writing, until then we are stuck with what we have and unfortunately have to abide by it.
     
    #249
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  10. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think situations like today are so much as a VAR issue as general refereeing. Ultimately the VAR is a person, I believe the VARs themselves are all referees in their own right, and judgement calls like the Moura incident today don’t get any easier with the application of technology. If anything they get harder.

    I am a firm advocate of the use of technology when it comes to goal line decisions and offsides. No matter how close those calls may be, there is a definitive rule in place that eliminates any human error. The ball crosses the line or it doesn’t. You’re offside or you’re not. End of story. Yeah it feels harsh when the goal/no goal margin is millimetres, or someone is offside by their big toe, but it’s definitive.

    Where it gets muddy is everything else. I’m against VAR for these decisions. But I also think that the standard of refereeing HAS to increase. It’s a hard job, especially at the top level, but it has to get better. I’m all for referees having video support if they miss an incident, but they have to make the decision on a screen by the pitch. And please, for the love of god:
    1. Mike up the referees so we can hear their conversations with fellow assistants and players, as is done with rugby.
    2. Make the referee compile a written report after each match the same day the match happens, explaining every decision. They are then held accountable against this report, as are the assistants and VARs. Filmed explanations of these reports and decisions to be made available to the general public. This should be a constructive learning process, not a witch hunt, because standards need to raise.
     
    #250

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image

    That's not hitting anything that counts as an arm for the purpose of handball.
     
    #251
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  12. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    So Chris Wilder was wrong to say it was a **** decision?
    Seriously...you can never wum us more than VAR did today <grr>
     
    #252
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  13. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    It is from the reverse angle :emoticon-0100-smile
     
    #253
  14. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    **** rule mate, correct decision according to the rule. City accepted it and a player lost his score bonus because of it but nobody cried.
     
    #254
  15. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    That is a worse effort than our second half display
    2/10
     
    #255
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  16. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    At least try to keep it real <whistle>














    <laugh>
     
    #256
  17. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    Anybody think it would be the same result if either our first goal had been allowed and/or their player would have been correctly sent off? As has been mentioned, it's aeons studying all the angles trying to rule out a goal, and no time at all to check whether there was an elbow. It was probably a straight red, but he didn't even get a (second) yellow - that is cowardice (as indeed it was when Bruno dived to try and win a second pen in the ManU game - when shown to be ludicrous even by ManU standards they still didn't have the balls to card him for cheating). Also has been mentioned that I can't actually see conclusively that it was handball in any sense of the term. So even if they want to stick with their completely stupid interpretation of "the rules" then surely the benefit of the doubt must be given to the attacker, particularly given the circumstances. These two decisions are a couple of the worst I've seen for ages - and that is quite a bold statement I know.

    And who thinks that "handball" would be given against Liverpool? I say no, reason being that the officials all love the easy life (deliberately or subconsciously). Give that against us and it will be talked about tomorrow. Give it against Pool and it will never be forgotten. Their "friends in the media" will discuss it to death - and the authorities could do without that sort of scrutiny. I mean can anyone remember a VAR decision that cost Pool a game?
     
    #257
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  18. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know whether the current matches are being played under the 2019/20 Laws or the 2020/21 Laws. The latter would normally come into effect on June 1 but there is an option to keep the previous Laws until the season ends.
    The handball rule has been changed again and now reads....
    "It is an offence if....
    after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately: 
    •scores in the opponents’ goal  
    •creates a goal-scoring opportunity"
    So it would be Kane committing the offence rather than Moura. This is much more open to interpretation because of the word 'immediately'.......but the fact that the Sheffield player deliberately kicked the ball after the touch to Moura's hand still persuades me there was no offence.
    There is also a new definition of what the arm is:
    For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
    The Laws also say:
    The Laws cannot deal with every possible situation, so where there is no direct provision in the Laws, The IFAB expects the referee to make a decision within the ‘spirit’ of the game – this often involves asking the question, “what would football want/expect?”
     
    #258
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  19. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    I was fuming last night and I'm still annoyed now. However, in an attempt to look at this a bit more clinically:
    • We came back from lockdown against United with a clear gameplan that had obviously been worked on, and it worked. But for a very soft penalty we would have had 3 points. Yes, Lloris pulled off a fantastic save for us to keep us in it, but DDG did for them as well.
    • We got a bit lucky against West Ham with the OG, but we were clearly the better team and though Antonio gave us trouble (and look what they did to Chelsea the other night after all) we were by and large solid defensively and deserved the win.
    • Last night we were on top in the first half and shouldn't have gone in a goal down and with even numbers on the pitch but for some awful refereeing, though we did lack creativity. We totally fell apart in the second half, unforgivably, and looked an utter shambles whenever Sheffield United attacked. Yes they were almost absurdly clinical, but you can't assume you'll win a game purely by the other team being wasteful. That is criminal. We set up with pace behind Kane but less creativity, and Wilder responded by sitting off, which, combined with some wastefulness from our players on the rare occasions we did manage to break, meant that we were stifled. Big feather in Wilder's cap and big mark on Mou's copybook for not seeing it coming or changing it sooner.
    I, and I don't think I was alone, was feeling reasonably optimistic ahead of last night, based on the first two performances after lockdown. That optimism was perhaps an overreach in hindsight, but I don't think all is doom and gloom. I genuinely think we'd have come away with a win yesterday if we hadn't gone into the break a goal down. We wouldn't have had to chase the game and the vulnerabilities at the back wouldn't have been so badly exposed. Despite our lack of creativity we still had the ball in the back of the net 4 times - one was counted, one was the Moura 'handball', and at least one more was a very marginal offside I think from Son, could be wrong. I think the 4th one was the Kane offside, which was blatant and rightfully disallowed.

    To be clear though, even if we'd eked out a 2-1 win, there would still have been an awful lot to fix, both from the management/coaching point of view, and the players needing to step up on the pitch. They lost it in the second half, you could see it just watching them. That is not good enough. As frustrating for the players as the situation at the end of the first half must have been, to lose it in the manner they did, is just unacceptable.
     
    #259
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  20. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Well look on the bright side lads, at least you're better than Arsenal.


    Oh hang on...
     
    #260

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