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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham United

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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  2. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    #222
  3. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    The problems we have are ;

    1. We rarely play well in both halves of a match.

    2. We have kept just 22 clean sheets in our last 91 matches in all competitions.

    3. We have conceded 2 goals or more in 34 of our last 91 matches.

    Opposing teams see that and know that they are very likely to score, and if they do have a high probability of scoring more than one.

    If I had been the west ham manager I would have told the team thst spurs had had their good half and if we get a goal they will panic.

    This is not down to one player, it is down to a team mentality and until that is addressed we will continue to be inconsistent as hell
     
    #223
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  4. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Everything is on the team here...not the manager...not the tactics and not the perfect subs with hindsight.

    3-0 up with 82 on the clock

    That’s on the players

    I reckon league 2 outfits could hold onto a 3 nil against better oppo than West Ham with only 10 to go.

    This is all on the team bar the attackers

    Sanchez needs to go and so does Toby, Sissoko has served his purpose, his football brain is dogshit...all Poch’s babies...all frail...need to go.
     
    #224
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  5. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    If you just blame our defenders you miss the fact that we lost control of the game. West Ham were almost parked in our penalty area for most of the second half, our defenders actually deserve some praise for keeping them out until the last 10 minutes. You don't trash Kane's game because he missed the shot that hit the post, neither should you trash Sanchez's game for the own goal when he actually got through a lot of decent defending throughout the game. Meanwhile the midfielders get off scot free (apart from DH and Winks of course) when their lack of influence in the second half was fundamental to the very poor performance but also of course instrumental to the excellent first half.

    Having said all that, the disappointment of losing a game where you are 3 nil up and imperious, to conceding three goals in the last 8 minutes is difficult to come to terms with. Did I say losing? The result was a draw but we did truly lose this game.

    If this smashes a complacency bubble that I think we fans were also feeling then it's a good thing early in the season. A wake up call is no use if you have missed the bus, and it's far too early to park it.
     
    #225
  6. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    theres a reason we have just signed a 6”4 centreback known for his heading ability. Them balls into a box always cause us a problem.

    Sanchez got to do better with that clearance...poor technique, pathetic header from 50p head. More accomplished minds would have hooked that away with the left foot.

    It looked like we lost control of the game...no chance did we lose control of the game to the extent that we concede 3 goals in 8 minutes...it may have felt that way.

    Tanguy played well, thought Hoijberg was decent too...Sissoko I’ve mentioned.

    without a doubt it’s a mentality thing but mistakes from individuals at the back are the same as usual...it’s not knee jerk. We knew before a ball was kicked that the defence is the weak link.

    anyway...I’m not too downbeat, Jose will fix this, I expect Rodon to become a starter once he’s integrated.

    5 points off top 99 to play for
     
    #226
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  7. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    Then how do you explain West Ham being in our box for most of the second half with enough chances to have won it. I saw Toby do some fine defending yesterday but sure we miss Vertoghen & Toby when they were at their peak and hopefully Rodon will help things, I have no idea, having not seen him play, but our defence right now is perhaps short of the standard of the rest of the team but that means our midfield needs to express it's quality and keep the ball in their half not stroll around with an air of supercity. *

    Jamie Carragher made the point that it's never been harder to be a defender as they are expected to be part of the attack as well and all these goals in all matches must tell us something. There was a period when the top division hardly saw goals and 1 - 0 was the most common result. The Italians built a whole form of football on it and won the world cup doing it. Look at all the top teams now and none of them have a rock solid defence anymore all of them ship goals like basket ball. I agree with you about Jose he has more chance of fixing this after all both Don Howe & Don Revie are no longer with us and of all the modern managers our Don Jose is probably best at defence.

    * I meant superiority but supercity might be right <laugh>
     
    #227
  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I don’t think Jose can be blameless, mate.

    The Tanguy substitution gave West Ham that extra impetus to really throw the kitchen sink. He was causing them problems and taking him off for someone that wasn’t like minded meant West Ham had a lot less to worry about. Conference teams wouldn’t be scared of a midfield three containing Hojbjerg, Sissoko and Winks. We still shouldn’t have conceded 3 goals but that sub especially hurt us.

    Toby, Sanchez and Sissoko may be Poch’s babies but Jose’s still utilising them on a regular basis.

    Realistically, Toby, Sanchez, Winks, Dier and Sissoko should be in the same boat as Danny Rose, or at the least, Dele. I’ve massively criticised Dele for ages and he’s essentially been rightly dropped but I’d still have him over Sissoko and Winks in a squad, he’s bad but he’s not worse than those two, especially the latter.
     
    #228
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  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    We've dropped that in three home games, mainly in the last minute and at least partially down to awful refereeing.
    We need to dig a big pit on one side of the pitch, as it appears to be cursed right now.
     
    #229
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  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    #230

  11. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    And you just know that like every other season these early results are gonna cost us, whether that be top six, top four or dare I even say the title seeing as no one so far (other than Villa!) looks like they really want it. Two points from nine at home is poor, especially when the opposition are three teams we should definitely be beating.
     
    #231
  12. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    I don’t see any player losing their rag at the frequency we concede free kicks in dangerous areas...always the same handful of culprits with clown shoes making silly thoughtless fouls
     
    #232
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  13. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the midfield and right back really stood out for me as our weak points second half. They were pushing forward and producing little, whilst only really succeeding in slowing down their attacks the other way(which suited them anyway).

    Jose touched on this too, saying we didn't create enough second half, with how West Ham were pushing forward. Essentially we should have been picking them off on the counter. Son should have really been a lot more prominant in those circumstances.

    Finger pointing at the individuals for errors made when you're under pressure for most of the half misses the problem. I remember when we were good at turning results on their head under Poch, it was always down to the quantity of attacks and pressure built, tiring the opposition and rolling the dice again and again.

    We were 3-0 up and we did the chasing, not them. They controlled the pattern of play, not us. The second half should have been similar to the Southampton match but we didn't give them much to worry about going forward.
     
    #233
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  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The point is that against Southampton we were ****e in the first half and imperious in the second, which is the other side of the coin - because being good in the second half can change a match in our favour, while being crap in the second half can change it in the opponent's

    I touched on it before and it's worth going back to: if we had Lamela on the bench he'd have been the perfect second half sub, as his ****ehousery would've nipped their momentum in the bud and he'd have offered Aurier more protection than Bergwijn did - but he wasn't on the bench, and it has to be asked why as this was the exact sort of match that was begging for some ****ehousery considering who the opponents were
     
    #234
  15. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    Bringing Winks on to see out a game was pointless, he is a water carrier and a very useful player in certain circumstances, but not in that situation. We had Dele and Lamela not even in the squad, who are both better players than Winks and both would have been a more suitable sub to bring on in this game. Lamela would have added high energy closing down, shietehousery and a ball winning attitude, Dele would have added more ability to retain possession, physicality and an aerial presence to help out at set pieces. Instead we bring on a 5ft 7" midget, whose game is not suited to a backs to the wall seeing out of a game, it does not make sense.
     
    #235
  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    It was Mourinho's fault.
    He switched Son and Bergwijn to try and get the Dutchman more involved in the game. All it did was to nullify Son.
    Then he brought on a clearly unfit Bale and stuck Moura on down the left, where he's useless.

    I assume that his bench was selected with the Europa League in mind, but it looked odd from the start and he used it poorly.
    If Kane's not going to get subbed off with ten minutes left when 3-0 up, then why was Vinicius there?
    Bergwijn's best on the left and Moura's better on the right, so why start the lefty on the right, then sub the righty onto the left?
     
    #236
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    #237
  18. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    I posted it, then decided to have it as a sig as I assumed you'd delete it.
     
    #238
  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Oh, I was wondering why it only came up once when I quoted you. That makes sense.
     
    #239
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  20. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Lamela did have a knock yesterday just for the record, though Ally Gold did say he participated in the post match warm down so it likely won’t be too bad and he should be good for Thursday.

    I did initially think it was odd he wasn’t in the squad because Jose seems to love him.
     
    #240

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