Match Day Thread versus Oxford

Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by sensiblegreeny, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    I know everybodies feelings but àt least throw some cash so he can prove himself or not.
     
    #61
  2. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    I know everybodies feelings but àt least throw some cash so he can e himself or not.
     
    #62
  3. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Oh come on hp, tell that story to the Accrington fans who regularly have just about 2000 through the gate. They are 6th as of this morning. He had a budget, maybe not the biggest one but certainly as much as most of the league and more than a few others. He has blown it on inferior players and his training regime is clearly not working with them. His refusal to change tactics like last year until almost forced to is legendary. Today when we are losing 2 - 0 and are down to 10 men he shores up the defence. We were losing Mr Adams and you think the solution is to ensure we don't let another goal in? No thought about going for it by attacking then. You get nil points for losing 2 - 0 or 3 - 0 or even 4 - 0. Something is not right in that dressing room and it shows by the players demeanour and attitude on a match day. They seem to have no confidence or will to win. I can forgive results if effort is put in but the reports today from people at the game is thete was no desire whatsoever. That's down to Adams. I'm not one to shout for a managers head at the first sign of trouble but I have to go and watch this shambles and it isn't pretty or getting better. If you want to bet your house on anything take the relegation odds now.
     
    #63
  4. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    Sorry Lads just back from bar...spelling atrocious too. <cheers>
     
    #64
  5. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    I know Sensible but thinking what DA is going through now is no ones business but needs to be addressed as you said.
     
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  6. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Argyle played in the South-West Peninsula League today against bottom side Sticker.....Calum Dyson scored 5 goals in a 9-0 thrashing. About time we gave this fellow a start....no one else knows where the net is.
     
    #66
  7. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    We as a fan base have pretty much always made excuses for ineptitude at Argyle. We defended greatly the old board as they lied to us and we fell into the Administration hole. We allowed Brent to get away with not investing a brass farthing into the club and we backed it all the way by spending our cash instead. We threw money in buckets for the staff who were being royally shafted. We followed the team over and over and the support never waivered. This is almost repeat for ever and ever over history with the Greens. We are not a happy bunch maybe but nobody can accuse us of not being loyal. But, there comes a time when enough is enough and you cannot go on forgiving everything.

    There is also apparently a rumour that all is not well financially at the club. I'm not going to post an oppinion on that as it is only a rumour and none of us know at this minute if there is any substance to it. I will only say that if there is substance then Argyle will be finished this time. I cannot see the fans doing it all over again.
     
    #67
  8. lyndhurstgreen

    lyndhurstgreen Active Member

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    No positive spin from me, probably the worst performance since I have been at the club. I cant/wont comment on our finances ( because I am obviously not allowed to), but in reference to Accrington and their performance with gates of 2K there are a couple of observations. Clubs in League 1 an spend up to 60% of their turnover on player related costs . For Accrington, and a number of other clubs the solution is quite simple - their owner simply gifts the club a wedge of money each month/year. This adds to the turnover income figure but is perfectly within the rules providing it is a gift- i.e the owner has no right to ask for his money back. So if you have a wealthy owner who wants to splash the cash for better players he is able to- our league is littered with clubs who operate this way. Accrington also have no problem in getting 'better' players to sign from the bigger clubs in their close proximity.
     
    #68
  9. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Lyndie I never ever expect you to comment on anything that is sensitive to the club financially or any other way. I understand exactly why you can't and don't. I also knew about the 60% and "gift aid" from owners but I still maintain our budget is not at rock bottom in comparison. I don't expect the owner to throw money at a problem either. I do expect them to be upfront and to do the right thing.
     
    #69
  10. lyndhurstgreen

    lyndhurstgreen Active Member

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    The problem is that I don't think anyone knows what the solution is....we cant do anything (on a practical level) until the January window- so we have a lot of games to get through with the same players until then. Even my green tinted optimism is starting to wane!
     
    #70

  11. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Thing is Lyndie, and I don't expect you to respond to this, there is one person who is paid to know what to do. If he doesn't then perhaps he should give the job to somebody who does.
     
    #71
  12. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    We were lead to believe in the summer that Derek Adams had done his homework and had set his targets regarding the players that he wanted to bring in.

    He had also decided which players he would release and those players he would offer new contracts to and there were also players who had contracts that spanned the summer and the following season.

    So things looked quite rosy....the players that he had pin pointed were mostly still under contract with their present clubs until the end of June so were not available till then....we were lead to believe that he had players lined up for transfer negotiations when they became available....as I said things looked organized and rosy in Derek Adams summer window.

    He brought in roughly ten players and most came in quite early in the window....so these players had plenty of time to jell into the squad and become an organized unit....quite a few other teams hardly did any early business in the early stages of the transfer window....so it was possible to feel quite smug that we as a club were ahead of the curve and would benefit from being together for those extra weeks.

    We organized lots of local friendlies which showed we were a caring professional club willing to give these local teams a little financial boost pre-season.

    BUT how did these easy games prove the metal of our new players who had reasonably easy run outs against these teams....in hindsight it proved nothing....the warning signs were flashing red the moment we played a league team...Yeovil who were a league below us just blew us away 5-0.

    Also our new players never had the chance before the season started to play one serious game at home....ok pre-development work was happening at Home Park....but I feel sure a game or two could have been fitted into the programme.

    Now hindsight is a great teacher and lessons I hope have been learnt for the future...although that wont help us at the moment....so lets look back three or four months.

    1.....Adams decided not to bring in a goalkeeper as a full time "Argyle " man.....he went for an up and coming youngster on a seasons loan....Harry Burgoyne from Wolves....nothing wrong with that.....here Adams was unlucky, Burgoyne broke his ankle during pre-season....so another similar loanee was brought in Matt Macy a big young Arsenal lad....but not everyone finds him as secure as they would like...especially his ball kicking (complaints yesterday about him kicking straight to their keeper or into touch).

    2.....The defence needed seriously strengthening, having lost Oscar Threlkeld (could he be kept ?), Sonny Bradley (same question ?) and also Zak Vyner returning to his parent club. Those that have been brought in have been questioned as sub-standard and not up to the job...results have backed that up...leaking goals with basic mistakes scattered through their performances.

    3..... Mid-fielder Conor Grant was added but not really strengthening that area beyond our regular choices. This is now a problem area because of our regular choices being far below their performances of last season.

    4....Attack, an area that we have not had a natural goal scorer for seasons, and now with a leaking defence the problem of goals is far more important than last season....with our target man Ryan Taylor being injury prone and out more than in the team this is a major problem.....Adams brought in Freddie Ladapo a released Southend player....a hard working forward who runs the channels without too much success in Adams set-up and not known for scoring too many goals....but doing as well as can be expected with the poor service that he has received from midfield. He also brought in Callum Dyson who has never got nearer than the fringes and now and again a bench warmer, who has come on for the odd minute or two. Of course Dyson then goes and scores 5 goals in a 9-0 thrashing for the Peninsula team.....the first team have hardly scored five goals all season.

    With Derek Adams having a five year contract and running every aspect of the football side of the business at PAFC...is that seen at the moment as a good thing or bad ?

    With Boardroom changes taking place on Nov 1st what will our new owner do....sacking Adams who has achieved 7pts out of a possible 39pts is probably an option we can't afford.....the question is how much football know how have the board got between them to help Adams get things on track.....not a lot... comes to mind.
     
    #72
  13. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    We are stuck with the players we have until the new year. I'm unclear whether they can't play at all or whether something (such as tactics or problems in the squad) are preventing them from doing so.

    Back in the really bad days in the run up to near financial oblivion, we definitely had players who were never going to succeed. I don't really see signs of that although they aren't doing enough in the positive sense to win games.

    Carey started last year poorly by his own standards and is doing the same this year. I was in a Dublin taxi once when the Irish international side were doing well. For that reason conversation with the driver turned to football and he claimed to be relative of Robbie Keane. Probably everyone in Dublin was at that time. He casually mentioned how much Robbie liked a drink or several when he came home to Dublin. Was that true? Don't know and I'm not making any accusation but does Carey not come back to training in a good state, physically, mentally or emotionally? Does Adams handle that well? Don't know but it's a funny coincidence.

    Continuing with outrageous racial stereotyping, Lamerias also seems prone to a drama. Last season he was sent out on trial prior to leaving the club (Preston was it? Oldham?) only to return and make himself a regular in the second half of the season. Adams said at the time that he'd challenged Lamerias on whether he wanted to play for the club or not. Pretty blunt and also probably unusual to make the fact public. This season, he's was again left out of match day squad for reasons unknown but now he's back again. What's going on there?

    And then there's tactics. The Smith-Browm/Moore full back combo we have now are very much different from the Sawyer/Threlkeld pairing last year. Smaller, quicker and more attack minded but seemingly more likely to be caught out of position. Our various CB pairings don't look as strong as Bradley and Edwards last year. Should we not recognise these strengths and weaknesses by trying 3 at the back with Smith-Brown and Moore pushed on as wing-backs? To my mind, that would probably mean leaving Lameiras out and playing Carey in midfield with two stronger types.... and then 2 up front. What have we got to lose by trying something different? God knows we need to turn this around somehow.
     
    #73
  14. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Maybe Adams should be sending Lameiras out on loan NOW....and then when he comes back he plays like an international for us.

    Did Bradley and Edwards ever play well together ?....it would have had to be before Christmas when we were total crap.....in the new year after Edwards cancer scare and he was recovering and of course out of the team....we had a great run and a water tight defence and it would have been Bradley and Vyner.

    Whilst mentioning Edwards....it is being asked if he has come back too soon....ok he seemed to come back in the summer strong and in good form....but in recent weeks he has picked up the "mistake syndrome" that is going the rounds in Argyle's defence....it has been said somewhere that it can take up to a year to fully recover from testicular cancer....maybe so....who can really tell....playing with others who keep cocking up can I expect rub off on you....what do others think ?
     
    #74
  15. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    We all know what the problem is and Adams should know it better than us. The Defence is absolutely crap at the minute. Somebody put a comment on pasoti yesterday and got slated for it. The comment was that Edwards is a clown. Well people should not connect an adverse comment about him with his medical history. He has been rubbish as a CB and it is quite proper for somebody to hold that opinion and express it. He makes far too many basic mistakes. Everyone feels for him with the cancer and everyone is chuffed to bits he has come back from it. But that's as a man and no opinion on his prowess as a footballer. Not good enough and there is no room for sentiment.

    I don't think Lameiras should go out on loan. I think he has been one of our better players so far this season. Yes he gives the ball away sometimes but so does golden boy Carey. Actually probably Carey does it more. There are only a small handfull of players that stand any chance of escaping the criticism so far. Songo is one as is Lameiras and Casey even though he has also made errors. Defender Grant is another but he has only had a few games where I think he has done well. Ladapo again has tried very hard without tearing up trees. The rest have had odd moments only which isn't enough. Adams has come out yet again and criticised everyone else and his dog for the problems without naming himself as one of them. I do not like that in anyone and am fast losing any regard I had for him. Sendings off???? Really. Injuries. Ok there have been those but every team has them. How about crap tactics and defending then? Nope not a mention. Sort out the coaching of the defence and stop making excuses for poor performances. Do what you are paid to do and stop moaning about those that actually pay your wages. In other words "be a man my son".
     
    #75
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  16. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    League One pundit George Elek head of media relations for Oddschecker, has said the Derek Adams is out of ideas and looking very dejected.

    He comments that Adams summer recruitment is full of very low quality and his present team is very poor....only two names....Graham Carey and Rubin Lameiras are worth mentioning....but at the moment both players are not producing anything near their best....and the team is in danger of relegation this season.

    On Saturday Plymouth Argyle looked very poor and during the second half when chasing the game they showed no ability to cause Oxford any problems....the Oxford keeper had no moments of danger to deal with.
     
    #76

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