Vile Songs Again

It was nothing of the sort, am I surprised that you chose to label it as such, no.

 

ANYONE, who sings these songs is "scum" IMO, It isnt my fault that 3000 ( not the odd idiot ) fans sang murderers at anfield and it isnt my fault that pretty much the entire stadium are vile enough to sing always the victims.

The dispicable fans are the issue

 

Can't generalize all of them. This will just bring about more airplane comments and what we have done. Think we all agree that the songs are wrong and should not be sung by anyone, if we can't get past this the thread will have to go.

 

Regarding second paragraph...

I picked up on it, as did Bluff. We bother made a point of making a comment early on in this thread too

 

Agree with this

 

You can't claim every single supporter present joined in. That is like saying every single Liverpool fan did the plane gester You can't have it both ways and I'm not having it the latter way

 

Seriously though, Boots- what do you think that chant is about?
I read that you say Blues chant it without that meaning, if so- why? If it's about selective blindness over the on-pitch behaviour of ones own players (diving, fouling, etc) then surely that's a common trait, so why single out LFC?
The chant is about the perceived relationship between Heysel and Hillsborough. It may be that many, including you, sing it without that particular malice but I'm sure the originators of it had far more sinister intent.

 

Also Boots, do you think it could have a different meaning at Everton to at Man Utd? and if so, what do you think the Man Utd fans (not all) mean by it?

 

I agree its not ALL, its about 0.001 % of LFC fans make these horrible gestures , and about 70% of United fans singing the songs, they should ALL be banned

 

And you did a full investigation for that then did you

I put it in simple terms, you don't need to state percentages of how many you perceive to have carried out these actions. It is not a Liverpool vs Man Utd thread! The issue is about unwanted chants and therefore it is about human decency and nothing more. Feel free to ridicule the individuals for their actions but don't generalise it out like that because your only trying to antagonist the Man Utd fans on here. You clearly don't like it when they say all Liverpool fans did the plane gester so what makes you think they will accept you saying they (or most) did the chants?

 

There may have been the odd idiot, doin planes gestures which is totally out of order, but the facts are this , you know it every LFC fans knows it, and every United fans know it. There were tens of thousands singing that song yesterday,and there were thousands singin murderers at Anfield

What is incredibly frustrating regards this issue, is the fact it appears, everyone appears to be trying to sweep it under the carpet, the media and now EVEN YOU, just cos its a bit uncomfortable and pretend it isnt happening,and EVEN MORE annoying is the fact that some fans are givin us this "oh your fans are just as bad", cos the facts are we arnt, I have NEVER ever seen a munich gesture or songa t Anfield EVER, and Ive seen 200/300 games in the last 10 yrs.

LFC fans in the main, have realised how f**kin stupid and hurtful these remarks/songs are, and dont do them. Man United havnt done this, that isnt my fault, that is there fault, and Im going to make an issue of it every time they sing them, if they dont sing them I cant make an issue of it can I, even Ferguson hates these songs, yet they still sing them. A very large portion of the crowd, not a few , but TENS THOUSANDS, and cos its United nothing is done

 

I stopped reading at that point

You need to go back and re-read this read. Absolutely no one, and I mean no one is sweeping under the carpet or condoning these actions. Whether that be a Liverpool fan, a Man Utd fan, or anyone else.

I don't like these chants as much as the next person. I believe these individuals should be punished for their actions and re-occuring offenders should be banned. If the individual is not recognisable, ban the person who bought the ticket for that seat instead, they'll start to speak if it means they lose their spot!

However, my point is you are purposely saying most or all Man Utd fans to antagonise the Man Utd fans into a heated argument, ie wumming (if you like)! I'll repeat, this is not Liverpool vs Man Utd! It is about human decency and we should all be singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

I completely agree with you here. Problem is not everyone feels the same - you will get people on both sides who just see threads like this as a red rag and have to get involved. It's 'KPR syndrome' (TM) - you've said something bad about my club so I have to say something bad about yours. Sadly there are fans of all clubs who feel this way and invariably end up provoking others into a pointless slanging match that ends up detracting from the real issues.

And it's worth noting that no one responding to this thread is responding on behalf of the people doing the chanting. They're responding on behalf of the thousands of Utd fans that don't chant, which includes themselves, but are labelled as vermin by people with an axe to grind.

 

I am not attempting to WUM, I am merely telling it like it is, I am not going to say " oh it was just a few individuals" singing that song, because that wouldnt be telling the truth, it was tens of thousands singing that song and its a REGULAR OCCURANCE, it need to be highlighted and continue to be highlighted time after time after time, UNTIL IT STOPS, if that take years so be it. Ferguson was right in condeming the singing of these songs, but United fans seem to think they are beyond the rules, " As The Song goes we are Man United we can do what we want, it appears they can"

What are peoples guesses as to the amount of people who sang that song yesterday. I would say 40,000

I think Fergie should come out again and say something like, you are embarrassing the club when you sing that song,you are casting shame on the club by singing it if it was my fans I would feel really really uncomfortable with fans singing that. I dont like it when we sing Joleon Lescott the elephant man, and thats a lot less offensive than this. I think LFC should contact United and ask Fergie to make a really aggressive statement about these songs, cause the last appeal which was a bit wimsy doesnt seem to have been enough,and also saying fans found singing them will be banned, LFC should do the same with any idiot who does gestures or simialr at Anfield

At the moment, it is going to continue, mainly because the media,and Man U are almost pretending it isnt happening.

 

I think it's years since there were tens of thousands of fans singing any song at Old Trafford. Most people in the North Stand seem to take a vow of silence when they enter Old Trafford.

 

Fair enough, I can accept that

In fairness, the statement made by Fergie last time did seem to work to a degree until the idiotic plane gester. But as said above, its not who started it and its not them vs us. There is no excuse whatsoever

PS - I just want to avoid the 'you did it first' argument etc. We all agree it is unacceptable and there is little point in debating numbers IMO

 

This.

Tho tbh I think it's moved beyond statements by the club now - I want us to identify and ban people who were chanting. We managed to ban the bloke who threw the bottle at Bellamy sharply enough, and identified the Liverpool fan shouting "Munich" in Jan 11, so you'd think with all the CCTV and Sky footage we should be able to find and ban the chanters now. I think as soon as a few people get banned for the problem then the chanting will start to die down.

Treat it like racism - the problem of racist abuse from the crowd dropped massively after people started getting banned and now anyone who shouts or does anything racist is usually identified and publicly shamed in short order. No reason not to do the same for vile abuse.

 

Even the Italians are getting fed up with it and they are notoriously seen as "racist". The video with Boateng that happened a few weeks ago, the crowd start losing it over the bunch who made the chants. It was good to see. ( not the racist chants but the crowd in general standing for what is right).

 

There has to be a statement prior to any bans,as clubs DEFINIETELY wont ban fans if there 25,000 singing it,a statement would mean just the odd idiot singing, the statement has to be aggressive and not mince words and leave fans in no uncertain terms that, if they sing them they will be banned

The problem is THIS WONT HAPPEN yet, unfortunatley we are still at the lets pretend it isnt happening stage, mainly cos the FA are f**kin useless

 

I think alot of it boils down to simple aggressiveness, hatred and stupidity from fans towards those of other clubs - which I personally don't understand. People genuinely seem to despise other fans and it's pathetic, it's a ****ing game. Ever see those highlights of shots which go wide and you get to see the fans behind the goal? Their faces are contorted with so much hate and then there's the swearing, the hand guestures...meanwhile their kids, and other people's children are nearby and copy/learn. This hate leads into abuse to other fans, to throwing objects at players, to fights outside games, chants within games. It just goes on. And people are too ****ing stupid, braindead and brought up by morons to ever learn or think for themselves, so they just jump on ship and give it right back. Clubs have no bollocks to stop it, other fans are too intimidated to try stop it and the parents don't care enough to bring their kids up properly (actually, they see this as being brought up proper probably).

Situation escalates.

TL;DR, clubs don't have bollocks to ban large numbers of people incase they lose fans. Football's a business.

Clubs need more than a useless fine. They need to play their next game behind closed doors. A fine does nothing. A whole home fixture with zero income will hurt them. It'll hurt the fans too.