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Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Chief, Feb 13, 2021.
He's a tremendous talent and will be pivotal to a successful era for the club. He won't leave just yet but one more season and he may just decide he can do better elsewhere.
It’s “nice” to be able to dream, give our views and speculate on possible better replacement managers. We say each time the time for possible change may be approaching that it should be a great one for the long term. I don’t want to repeat the fact that managing United has proved beyond all the previous managers so far. And any suitable candidate on paper may prove absolutely rubbish when they take on the job. Did we think that Mourinho would be unsuitable? No Nor did we think Moyes or Van Gaal would turn out absolutely rank.
Back to reality though. The GGs and Woodward have only one single criterion: It is a 4th place. If we don’t get a 4th place, he’s out even if we win the FA cup. LVG learnt that to his cost. The Europa comes with a CL place so that will also save him. Whether we like it or not, if solskjaer gets 4th no chance of a change.
I would say that in terms of his approach, I feel Ole has been better than the previous three we've had. Others may disagree because Jose and Van Gaal won silverware but tbh the style of football made me want to stick forks in my eyes watching it.
But, there's no getting away from the fact that whilst Ole has got us back to an identity which resembles close to the football we recognise, he is limited and has taken us as far as he can.
I'll give you an example. Moyes thought ALL we were about was wingers. Every game we'd have about a gazillion crosses pumped into the box aimlessly with no other tactics. Likewise Ole thinks all we're about is counter attack football and he's just as wrong as Moyes was. And the thing is, at this stage in his career he doesn't have the skill or experience to develop the side beyond that. I also don't think having Carrick (an inexperienced coach) helps Ole develop as a manager either.
Except there were many questions raised about Mourinho given his history before he came abroad. We knew from his history that he was never a long term manager. At most, you will get two years out of him before he implodes. That was his pattern before we ran to him because City went for Pep. It was an emotional choice as opposed to an informed one.
LvG was experimental given how long he had been out of management. At least to bring some stability to the team after Moyes debacle. If LvG and Moyes were mistakes, Mourinho should have never been the man to follow them.
As for Ole, he was brought in as a stop gap, and rightly so. However, he should have never been given the job permanently. But again, we made an emotional choice before the season was even over during his interim period and the story went sideways! That was the biggest mistake of all. We didn’t wait for a trend to be solidified. Ole has couple of good games and everyone jumped the gun for him to be offered the job on a permanent basis and the rest is history.
So no! We have yet to get a proven, focused and modern manager in the position since Sir Alex left the position. However, I think that this is the best squad we have had in almost ten years - thanks to Ole. Sadly he isn’t the man to get the best out of the team.
You both make good points that I cannot disagree with. Tbf the decision to give Ole the job was not purely emotional. You say “ Ole has couple of good games” no he had a run of 12 good games and there were pressure from all quarters including United fans for him to be given the permanent job. And immediately afterwards the roof caved in. With the benefit of retrospection yes we should have waited and given someone with more credentials at the very top the job in the summer.
My view is that United all things being equal would have appointed a top name as a manager. Based on his managerial career Ole would not have had a look in if he wasn’t Ole. But he was given a trial period which normally is never available because Mourinho was sacked mid season. And fortunately or unfortunately depending on where you stand he passed that trial period. IMO he is doing a decent job, not an optimum one. He is creating more of a team feel, getting more from some players like Shaw who was absolutely down with Mourinho and he has promoted young players into the team.
We should of course beat teams like WBA and Sheffield United but this has been a weird season. As I type Everton has just been demolished at home by bottom three side Fulham. This doesn’t make Ancelotti a poor manager. Does this mean that Ancelotti should be close to the sack? Of course not. No one questions him because he’s got credentials.
We can and need to improve. We simply need to get that killer touch. We don’t have players like Giggs, Scholes, Rooney who can turn games with a touch of class against poorer sides. You either have it or you don’t. Not sure the manager can do anything about this.
I get the feeling on here sometimes that we are no better than the self entitled Scousers when things don't go our way.
I will start by pointing out the obvious (again), Fergie got 6 years to get anywhere when he came in and was under flack for quite a bit of that.
Ole has made a huge difference to the team and the way we play after the last two disasters and i am happy with that.
He has made some good purchases and brought academy players into the squad, he has transformed our playing style from total **** to pretty good to watch.
More importantly (for me) he is realistic, whenever asked if we are challenging he always say's no we are not there yet. I believe this is because he and hopefully the club are thinking long term and have a vision of what they want. In my opinion he has an agreement with the club to work to a plan as long as the results/league position doesn't fall below a certain point (probs top4), You can't build a title winning team/squad in two years.
Is Ole the Messiah, no, but he's not a very naughty boy either
One thing we have to remind ourselves is the problems go beyond the manager. We still need a decent DOF. We have the money but not the brains. Not just player recruitment either.
In the time we've been fcking around with some really poor appointments, there have been some top managers we've missed out on.
Name these top managers and i will try and track how long they get at their new clubs and what they win
van Gaal and Jose were known to be quite good at some point
He's done well to a point but I don't see much to suggest there's any sustained progress which is following a long term plan. Even the football under Ole has regressed in the time he's been here. Compare the games 2 years ago to what you've witnessed over the last 8 games.
The defence is still ****. Take Bruno out and we lack any creativity. We're no nearer to competing for any silverware.
If we were playing badly and winning OR playing well but losing, I'd honestly be willing to give him time. But we have the worst of both worlds. The football is dire and the results aren't there either. Granted not the whole season but our seasons are very predictable.
If our squad was **** or full of mercenaries I might think otherwise but I genuinely believe a decent manager would be doing better with them.
Pep, Klopp and Ancelotti for starters we've missed out on.
Van Gaal was a poor appointment. Jose was the last big name available at the time. If any of those 3 names mentioned above had been, he never would've or should've got a look in.
Klopp i will give you but he usually implodes after 5 or 6 years.
Pep walked into the most expensive squad ever assembled and already near the top, he has kept them up there by spending literally hundreds of millions but still **** in the CL.
Ancelotti for me would be like a re-run of van Gaal, has been great but am interested to see what he does with Everton to prove he still is.
I'd happily take 5 years under Klopp.
Not sure what your point is about Pep, I hate to break the bad news but we've spent literally hundreds of millions I'd rather we'd done it under Pep lol. I just like his footballing style. It's quick, intelligent, attacking football built on a solid defence. And he improves players. What's not to like.
My point with Pep was that he has spent as much or more than 3 of our managers put together.
This means we have had 3 different managers with different ideas who couldn't/wouldn't use the previous managers players to the best of their ability. In contrast Pep has spent that amount on players he wanted/chose and still couldn't get a tune out of them so had to buy again. It's a lot easier when you can keep trying them until you find one that fits
Well they do have owners that want to win stuff
Do you think Pep would do better with the players we have now?
In fact do you think Pep would've done better with any squad we've had in the past 4 years (he's been at City) than the managers we've had during that time? I do.
Short answer because it's late, no.
In the Heat of the Night is on again btw.
Except we have a wage bill that is £73m more than the next team. This is not a matter of entitlement! The money paid to the team comes directly from the fans. Consequently, the team should perform to earn their wages.
I'm glad he's being realistic mate...
Not having a pop at Ole here btw, just found the timing funny as fck lol
I don't think the Ferguson comparison is like for like though.
Fergie came to United a proven manager, Ole did not.
I know there were some dark times, I was a season ticket holder throughout so witnessed pretty much all of it first hand, but we could see there was something happening and were prepared to wait.
Conversely, Ole has run into the buffers and what we can see is that he seems to have reached his limit.
What Ferguson was was a great manager. He was never a coach. He had sidekicks always; Knox, Kidd, McClaren, Queroz, Meulensteen etc. etc.
Ole doesn't have that. He has Michael Carrick who is not nearly experienced enough. Unless Ole is prepared to bring on board a proven coach with ideas and nous, he won't take us any further, it's just clear as daylight.
I agree he's been an improvement on previous managers, LVG for definite anyway. Van Gal was always the emperors new clothes personified for me, from day one. I knew he was ****e, you just weren't allowed to say as he'd won stuff previously (decades previously!).
Mourinho was only inferior in the season he was actually sacked though. The previous two seasons and with Zlatan fit and firing were better, it's disappointing he fell for his own cliche and turned it all to **** as he could have been the right man.