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Willie Mullins dominance good or bad for the game

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by SaveTheHumans, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. SaveTheHumans

    SaveTheHumans Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if this article has been done before but I just read Kevin Blake 's article on ATR's website and felt he made quite a few valid points regarding the situation. Definitely worth a read if you have a spare 5 minutes.

    I fully agree with him on the situation in Ireland where the % of runners has decreased, yet the % of graded races has gone up. It's unbalanced and it needs fixing.

    Anyway, have a gander yourselves and see what you think.

    http://www.attheraces.com/blogs/kevin-blake
     
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  2. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    Far too many Graded races around, he's bang on with that. But that's a problem for the race planners isn't it. Again as we've been here before small fields seem to annoy people, I don't mind them if there's a few good uns in them but seems too many trainers avoid running their charges. Can't really blame those that show up, it those that don't who create the problem.

    No problem with Mullins myself, I'm aware that's possibly a shock to some. But ask yourselves what would Cheltenham be without Mullins sublime horses? Better or worse? I think we all know the answer to that.
     
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  3. floridaspearl

    floridaspearl Well-Known Member

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    Here's a question for you beefy. How many of Mullins horses are bred in ireland
     
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  4. Ste D

    Ste D Well-Known Member

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    When Nicholls was cleaning up with big guns likeMasterminded,Big Bucks and Kauto Star it was all very positive and good for game.Mullins is in a similar situation yet all we hear is moaning and how it's ruining the sport blah blah.How can anyone who loves the sport not be excited about Mullins A guns being unleashed in March!!I think a lot of it boils down to jealousy and a little patriotism( by some)that 'there is a little upstart over the other side of the pond coming into are own backyard and showing us up!How dare he!!
     
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  5. the don

    the don Well-Known Member

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    All these things are cyclical and it just happens that in Harold Kirk Mullins has found the man to find him top quality French bloodstock and an owner with deep pockets to fund it. No one can doubt he is a fantastic trainer but what would happen if he swapped yards with say Nichols or Henderson? The secret is what he has brought into the yard.
     
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  6. Chaninbar

    Chaninbar The Crafty Cockney

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    I think that's what you'd like to believe over that side of the Irish Sea but it's complete tripe. I can't think of a single friend of mine who I've been racing with in the last 20 years who has ever celebrated a winner cos of where it's trained. You have winners and you go to the payout window and you have losers and your voucher goes in the bin. Where it is trained is an irrelevance. Don't even get me started on this Prestbury Cup bollix at Cheltenham. Nobody I know over here who likes racing cares. In fact the only English chap I know well who owns racehorses has all his with Enda Bolger.
    I understand the Irish pride and celebration in getting winners over here which harks back to the days when the landed gentry used to buy up all the good horses.
    As for the Mullins domination he's hardly an overnight sensation. He seems to have a brilliant set up for acquiring quality horses and by all accounts not paying top dollar. Fair play to him.
     
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  7. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    I don't really care where they are bred, who owns them or who trains them where. I love to see good horses full stop. Any dominance is likely to be by a few very rich owners. And they will put their best horses with the best trainers.
     
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  8. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    To be honest you could find a similar thread on most major sports chat boards. Football, and particularly the European leagues, is a prime example of where the rich few dominate, be it in Germany (Bayern Munich), Spain (Barca, Real Madrid), France (PSG) or Italy (Juve, Inter in recent years). It is very much as Rich Ricci says, you employ the best people to get the best results and if it isn't working you change things.

    Speaking of Rich Ricci, I found him to be very open, honest and eloquent during his time on The Morning Line on Saturday and his most interesting comment, for me, was when asked why he had got into NH racing when it is so unknown in the USA. He basically said flat racing already had its huge players who dominated the game, whereas he felt in NH he could afford to be very competitive. He also clearly stated it is a hobby, not something where he expects to generate a return on his investment.

    The dominance of Willie Mullins reflects not only his personal talents, it also reflects the professionalism and talent of his entire set up and it is something other trainers need to look at and learn from, particularly those backed by owners with deep pockets. But the sport cannot afford to lose its sense of romance, highlighted in recent years by the likes of Peter Casey (winning his first Grade 1 with Flemenstar and promptly announcing on live TV "I'll have ****ing sex tonight and everything") or the Bradstocks winning the Gold Cup with Coneygree.

    Racing needs Willie Mulins and his superstars, because it badly needs to attract new investment and cannot continue to rely on the benevolance of a few wealthy patrons. It also needs innovative people at the helm to keep pushing the sport forwards. One such would be Mike Cattermole, who has shared a lot of ideas both sensible and interesting since starting a regular column on Sporting Life.
     
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  9. Ste D

    Ste D Well-Known Member

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    Chan I'm with Ron and Co and don't give a toss where a horse is trained.My comment about Mullins yard in Ireland is merely based on some of the ante Mullins drivel ive been reading online/Twitter etc.You only have to go onto the Betfair Forum to see what im talking about!Thankfully it's only friendly banter on here.
     
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  10. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member
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    Fair comment but I think it's best not to take much notice of what's posted on Betfair and Twitter. The ones doing the knocking will probably be the same ones moaning when a Mullins hotpot loses and blows their 6 horse accumulator....
     
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  11. the don

    the don Well-Known Member

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    Oddy, i agree, hes very engaging and honest. The only thing he said which i thought was disingenuos was around doing it as a hobby. He makes money out of the game and im sure some time ago he said something to that effect. He doesnt pay fortunes for many of his horses, just look at Min!
    His traning bill from Mullins must be pretty big but look at the prizemoney he has won and the 'value' of his stock and im pretty sure he is well in profit.
    His comment about why chosing jump racing helps support this - for a relatively modest outlay he could be the best.
     
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  12. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    I guess so the don, but if you look how many horses he has with Mullins (I'd guess around 50??? Anyone know??) you'd be needing a fair few good ones to cover all your costs (Faugheen still hasn't earned as much as The New One <whistle> <laugh>)

    How would you think daily costs at Closutton compare to what you lads pay Longsdon? I assume Ricci gets a price for the job lot so is well in ;)
     
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  13. the don

    the don Well-Known Member

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    I believe Mullins costs £1.5k vs £1.25k / month for Longsdon so not a massive difference although Mullins costs will be lower. Obviously where WM makes the kicker is his 10% share of the prizemoney and the mark up he charges for horses Harold Kirk sources.
     
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  14. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    50 horses at 18,000 per year. Is he going to make 900,000 pounds per year in prize money? It's a bit ask to get it all back. Then factor in the priced paid for the stock.
     
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  15. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    300k for winning a Gold Cup. That puts it into perspective.
     
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  16. floridaspearl

    floridaspearl Well-Known Member

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    Bringing all these French Breds in to Ireland could be very damaging for the Irish bloodstock industry. In conversation with someone, would you be able to register one of these French stallions in this country. I may be wrong but as I understand it these French horses are not full thoroughbreds so how would that stand here and in Ireland. This is probably one for Ron or princess.
     
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  17. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    I could be wrong FP, but I think they stand on all four of those things at the bottom of their legs. :)
     
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  18. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    This threads turning a bit into a Ricci thread so my tuppence on that is he's good for the game, puts plenty of dosh in (certainly doesn't 'make' anything out of it) and I believe he's a genuine racing fan and is much more media friendly and open than certain other big owners. I've been lucky enough to have met him and spoke to him last year at Cheltenham and he is extremely approachable and friendly.

    Back to Mullins domination in relation to the point

    Well this could be argued forever with no one able to anwswer it. What Mullins is bringing in is potential which he's turning into superstars, they aren't ready made stars. You'll find more £200,000 purchases in Pipes yard, Hobbs yard, Hendersons, Nicholls etc etc than you will in Closutton. There's little to say these horses big English owners are buying are worse than Mullins buys so why are they not achieving the same end product?

    Douvan won one race from six in France. Min cost £18,000 and was 3rd and 4th in 2 starts. These are nowhere near being ready made stars, but Mullins is finding the key to getting the absolute best out of them. Nicholls and Henderson aren't at the minute, so I think I know the answer to what I've highlighted in the above quote.
     
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  19. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    You do know these are GELDINGS we see over jumps mate <doh>
     
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  20. the don

    the don Well-Known Member

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    The stallions are pure blood, the mares arent full thoroughbreds, have to be 85% or somethine (AQPS mare), I know a bit as have brough horses in france recently.

    Policy Maker and Walk in the Park are 'French' Stallions now in Ireland. Theres no way the french will sell their best brood mares!!


    The irish thoroughbred industry is in problems due to the inbreeding of Saddlers Wells.


    Cyc, that cost is only for while they're in training so you can half that number. While they are resting the costs is £200 per month or something.
     
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