WTF happened to Pochettino?

Well as a Pool fan can i just point out that if Fergie didn't leave a legacy at Man U i'm not sure of any manager (apart from Shanks) who has ever left a legacy . Part of the reasoning here seems to ignore the fact that he was in charge at Utd so long he inherited his own legacy . Plus as Bobby has pointed out OT was hugely improved during his tenure the fact due to the fact he made them a domestic then european power, The fact it has been allowed to fall into disrepair is not his fault but those who run the club .

 

Another example I'd cite is that the legacy Claudio ranieri left Leicester with wasn't the title win, as there's a section of the Leicester support who go so far as to say he just happened to be there when The Leicester City Fairytale™ happened (there was a piece in WSC a year or so ago saying exactly that) but what he did do was raise the club's profile significantly, and that not only gave them and edge in attracting players such as Harry Maguire or James Maddison who otherwise would have just as likely wound up at any of a number of the midtable pack or spent a few years on the bench at one of the Top 5 + Spurs (as Sky, BT and the BBC likes to consider them...), but also played a large part in them being able to attract the likes of Wilfred Ndidi, Ricardo Pereira and Youri Tielemans because players view Leicester as a Top 8 club rather than a midtable-or-lower club

To try and make sense of what I'm saying, take a look at the last three Bundesliga champions who weren't Bayern Munich: Dortmund (2012), Wolfsburg (2009), Werder Bremen (2004) or, to be more accurate, look at their status: Dortmund are regularly hailed as a model for teams such as ourselves and are seen as a viable club for the likes of Jadon Sancho, Julian Brandt or Erling Braut Haaland to join - yet has anyone looked at Wolfsburg or Werder Bremen in the same way at any point in the past ten years?

And that's what Poch did: when he took over we were basically one of a number of options for players, so our status was essentially being seen as a level above the Eredivisie, Primeira Liga or lower reaches of the Premier League - but by last summer we were seen as a viable destination for like likes of Ndombele or Lo Celso, players who were being linked with the upper tier of clubs, and that last part is the difference because a decade ago we were getting the cast-offs from top-tier clubs such as van der Vaart, but now we're certainly around the same level of Dortmund...albeit without a scouting network that's anywhere as good as theirs, and that needed to be sorted three or four years ago

 

Biggest doesn't mean the best. Old Trafford is a very poor quality stadium. What Spurs have in stadium and training facilities is miles better. Man Utd turnover is still driven by previous success but it isn't built into the club in the way Real Madrid's and Bayern Munich's is. It isn't Ferguson's fault that it isn't.

 

What a difference one letter makes...

 

Also, by that logic, Alan Sugar has a legacy at Spurs as he expanded WHL

...and ****ing hell didn't the little **** like holding that over our heads when asked why he wasn't spending any money on things such as "players"

 

Saw these pictures of the lodge posted elsewhere.
http://f3architects.com/work/thfc-training-centre/
No wonder everyone keeps banging on about it.

 

nicely done

long may it continue .

 

Genuinely curious what you mean by this?

At first glance, the comparison isn't a fair one. Real are routinely bailed out by the Spanish taxpayer (often in the form of plots of land located near the Bernabeu suddenly being purchased for vastly inflated sums in order to build council buildings). In addition, TV money in La Liga is very much a capitalist enterprise, with Real and Barca taking ridiculously large slices of the pie (case in point: last season, Huddersfield took in almost 4x as much in TV money than La liga's bottom side Vallecano, and that's before the second income stream of parachute payments is taken into account). And as for Bayern, well for some reason the entire Budesliga sees itself as having some sort of sacred duty to serve as one huge academy for them, developing talent and happily selling it to them for peanuts or for free. Case in point: Lewandowski receiving a round of applause and bouquet of flowers after his final game for Dortmund before moving to their closest rivals. Maybe it's a sinister throwback to old nationalist sentiment, who knows?

My point is that since the earliest days of the PL, the entire system was purposefully set up to produce the most competitive league in the world. And let's be honest, it worked. The PL's unpredictability and lack of cricket scores is what continues to drive its popularity in a self-fulfilling profit loop. And that's what Fergie - especially once Chelsea and then City were on the scene - was up against.

That's my take on it but as i said, I might have totally misunderstood your point.

 

Newsflash but newer stadiums built more recently tend to be of higher quality.

Did the stadium and facilities fergie leave compared to when he arrived become better after he left or before.

 

Technically worse, considering the pitch looked like a swamp during periods in the last decade

What made that a particularly egregious error is that the exact same thing happened at the San Siro in the mid-90s, because whoever designed the stadium renovation neglected to take into account that it might be a good idea to allow the grass to actually experience sunlight at some point in its existence, so if there was a sustained period of rain the pitch turned into a bog

 

So have we decided whether winning trophies is part of football or not?

 

Nah. Come back in a decade and we might have an update.

 

Old Trafford's even got a waterfall now:

please log in to view this image

 

Have you realised that football doesn't begin and end with trophies yet?

 

I do

Everything else is in check... time to deliver the silverware and challenging teams

 

yes as it an obvious sign of success .
The debate is over whether you need to have set up the infrastructure of the club to make it sustainable prior to becoming a trophy winning club or if winning trophies can in itself lead to the financial growth to make it self sustaining .
So as normal on not606 we could keep going round in circles o this for years

 

Of course it is but only a tiny number of clubs have the resources to do it so it can't be a general measure of success.

 

They added a lot of cheap seats at Old Trafford but they lacked the ambition to go for upgrading it to a world class facility. They wouldn't qualify for a CL final to be staged there whereas that was part of the spec for Spurs

 

I didn't make my point very well and you are quite right that no English clubs have the same clout in England as Real Madrid have in Spain or Bayern Munich in Germany or even Juventus in Italy. But I think this is what Levy is aiming for and if he manages it then that will be a legacy.

 

Fans put a much a greater emphasis on winning trophies than most managers and all owners do.

Just as a matter of interest - the last 2 managers to win a trophy at Spurs were George Graham and Juande Ramos - is any Spurs fan here going to try and say that either of them were a better Spurs manager than Poch, or Harry or even Martin Jol?