Off Topic WW2: The World at War - Channel 5

Just caught this half way through on Channel 5 +1

Looks to be an updated makeover of great series The World at War but really misses the narration gravitas of Olivier.

Seemed to be alright; made a more balanced presentation of appeasement, but I have just hit the Battle of Arras and it has derailed a bit - calling it a counterattack and saying the German 88mm was only designed as a flak gun.

EDIT: Sorry Folks, I gave the title quoted using the SkyQ i button. When I went to download on My 5 catch up it seems that the series is really called 'WWII In Numbers', so it seems my expectations should not be aiming quite as high.

 

I always take the overall view of these programmes.

I'm currently researching French Resistance which often get a bad name.

It's heart-breaking researching this subject tbh, the vast majority were executed in late 1944 out of sheer spite because the Germans knew they'd lost.

 

The German 88mm was also put on the Tiger tank, unbelievable piece of engineering. They were also placed on top of the Flak Towers that surrounded Berlin, these could also be angled downwards .

 

What was the French political landscape like in the 30's? Am I right in thinking that there was great mistrust between socialists and the right and between all politicians and the army?

 

That's about right mate and it splintered the country ...

... but the majority were united against the fascists as far as I can tell.

 

That sounds really interesting. I've just read a book about the SAS Operation Loyton in the Vosges and how they linked up with the maquis. The way the French that were involved with that was terrible. Really interesting subject that I'd like to know more about.

 

Throughout WW2 the resistance continually ferried allied airmen out of France so they could fight again.

They lost 2 fighters for every repatriated airman and knew the risks.

They were captured, brutally tortured and executed ....

... wherever we walk we find pathetic little monuments to the kids who took a bullet in the head.

Absolute heroes who history gave a bad name.

 

So what's your research focused on? Are you looking at individual's stories or people local to you?

 

I'm not so sure with France, her right wing (and here I am talking Catholic & Monarchist rather than Fascist) politicians seemed to fear communists the most - considering they had the Spanish civil war on their doorstep that could be understood. What was the French view of that conflict?

 

It's based on the whole of France tbh, although I'm naturally more interested in the towns and villages I can visit in this area.

The graves & monuments are immaculately kept and the local people observe anniversaries impeccably.

We speak to local people, whenever we can, and they're universally behind the resistance fighters despite having suffered as a consequence of their actions. The Nazis would regularly execute civilians as revenge for soldiers killed by the resistance. Yet the locals seem to accept that as part of the fight against occupation. Most of the people executed were in 1944 out of sheer spite when the Allies landed in the south of France and the Normandy coast.

 

Sounds interesting! Yeah, from what I read in that Op Loyton book, it sounds like the resistance were extraordinarily brave and knew and accepted that they were quite likely to meet a nasty end. I think there was one case where an entire farm and it inhabitants were burnt to the ground because they were known to have harboured a small group of allied personnel.

 

One of the worst experiences I've ever endured was in https://www.oradour.org/

I won't go into detail but I threatened an English man, there with his family, who was taking the piss out of the victims.

If the Germans had occupied the UK we've no idea what collaboration or resistance would've happened tbh.

We like to believe we'd have all been brave resistance fighters but how many English Jews or 'Commies' would've been shopped.

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That looks like a fascinating, but very sad, place.
Thats an interesting question- how would we have coped under occupation? I know we had the auxiliary units who would have carried out a guerrilla campaign but I wonder how else we would have coped.
Anyway, good luck with the research. I'd be interested to hear anything you find out.

 

The world at war was a great series. I watched it all while working away from home a few years ago.

I think the civilians of occupied countries would of been put in a terrible position. I'd love to think we'd be of all banded together to fight, but I highly doubt that would be the case.

People happily report each other for all kinds of minor things.

 

And now all we ask them to do is wear a mask to stop a virulent pandemic from decimating the population and it’s against their human rights. But that aside a brilliant series.

 

Also with the D-Day landings in Normandy, Michael Vitmann of the Waffen SS (Panzer Group leader & Ace) were ordered to travel north towards the beaches. The French resistance done everything in their power to slow down this Panzer group otherwise the casualties would have been even higher.

 

That's the sad truth and many resistance fighters were denounced to the SS or French militia.

It's true that the resistance were responsible for revenge executions of civilians by the Germans.

But there were instances of French people using the occupiers to settle age old grudges.

In some cases they'd report people for trivial actions such as giving food to resistance, the Germans deemed that executing them was justifiable.

There was a clandestine squad of ex-resistance fighters still operating in the mid-fifties.

They spent years going through German papers, etc, identifying anyone who'd shopped those involved with the resistance.

They would capture suspects, and witnesses, hold actual clandestine trials, produce evidence and pass sentences.

In other cases people collaborating, or conspiring, were executed even before the Germans had finally pulled out.

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A French collaborator is executed. Photo by anonymous (21st November 1944)

There's still an aftermath of that atmosphere in some of the more remote villages where the population changes little.

I've seen old people argue in the street on a couple of occasions, horrible to see and hear.

As people have said, who knows how we'd have coped.

 

There are some great individual stories on these types of programmes, the one on a Wittmann as above was very good, centred around Villers-Bocage and his one man destruction of 7th Armoured Brigade. There is even some ambiguity to this day, how he was killed in action and by whom. The Atlantic Convoys and how Royal Navy tactics and technology overcame the U Boats, again a major turning point. Overall Hitler made some disastrous decisions, he had the RAF on its knees but didn’t know it,( the Battle of Britain makes great viewing) and of course Hitlers reluctance to retreat must have cost thousands of lives. Every army no matter how great will have to retreat and recover sometime. I also don’t understand how Heinz Guderian survived after the war and was released by the Americans. Still that might be one to research

 

Have any of you ever watched the documentary on BBC2 called Operation Mincemeat. About the dead body who SoE dressed in an officer uniform and dumped offshore in a submarine knowing that a part of Spain was sympathetic to the Nazi regime. If you haven't seen this then spend an hour to watch it, the team were quite brilliant for their time.

 

The early film drama was on the Talking Pictures channel last week, brilliant.

Made a huge difference to the invading allies.