Off Topic The Politics Thread

Goldman Sachs is wealthy and powerful, Pils, but I don't believe it could corrupt a sovereign government. And banks only advise, it's governments that take executive action. If you pursue this, let's add this to the CONSPIRACIES thread...!

 

In 2001, just after Greece was admitted to Europe’s monetary union, Goldman Sachs helped the government quietly borrow billions, people familiar with the transaction said. That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan, helped Athens to meet Europe’s deficit rules while continuing to spend beyond its means.

As in the American subprime crisis and the implosion of the American International Group, financial derivatives played a role in the run-up of Greek debt. Instruments developed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and a wide range of other banks enabled politicians to mask additional borrowing in Greece, Italy and possibly elsewhere.

Yup...............definately not the Greek peoples fault Goldie as they were not even aware of the deal between their politicians and Wall Street.

And not just Greece.............Italy too.

 

I would suggest they are both as corrupt as each other and both as thick as thieves ironically, in this instance.

No conspiracy here.

 

Not directly the Greek people's fault, Pils, but they elected the Greek government to represent them.

You can say the German people in the 1930's were not to blame for WW2, but they voted in the Nazis

 

It's quite hard to tell where the government of various European nations with financial problems stops and Goldman Sachs begins:

Goldman is being criticized for its involvement in the 2010 European sovereign debt crisis. Goldman Sachs is reported to have systematically helped the Greek government mask the true facts concerning its national debt between the years 1998 and 2009.[139] In September 2009, Goldman Sachs, among others, created a special credit default swap (CDS) index to cover the high risk of Greece's national debt.[140] The interest-rates of Greek national bonds have soared to a very high level, leading the Greek economy very close to bankruptcy in March and May 2010 and again in June 2011.[141]Lucas Papademos, Greece's former prime minister, ran the Central Bank of Greece at the time of the controversial derivatives deals with Goldman Sachs that enabled Greece to hide the size of its debt.[142]Petros Christodoulou, General Manager of the Public Debt Management Agency of Greece is a former employee of Goldman Sachs.[142]Mario Monti, Italy's former prime minister and finance minister, who headed the new government that took over after Berlusconi's resignation, is an international adviser to Goldman Sachs.[142] So is Otmar Issing, former board member of the Bundesbank and the Executive Board of the European Bank.[142]Mario Draghi, the new head of the European Central Bank, is the former managing director of Goldman Sachs International.[142]António Borges, Head of the European Department of the International Monetary Fundin 2010-2011 and responsible for most of enterprise privatizations in Portugal since 2011, is the former Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs International.[142]Carlos Moedas, a former Goldman Sachs employee, is the current Secretary of State to the Prime Minister of Portugal and Director of ESAME, the agency created to monitor and control the implementation of the structural reforms agreed by the government of Portugal and the troika composed of the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Peter Sutherland, former Attorney General of Ireland is a non-executive director of Goldman Sachs International. These ties between Goldman Sachs and European leaders are an ongoing source of controversy.[142]

Good old Wiki. Of course this just shows us that the incomptence of bankers and governments is ubiquitous. No matter, Lloyd Blankfein, chairman and CEO of GS since 2003, pulls in $50m plus a year and has shares worth several $bn. It is a racketeer influenced corrupt organisation, to use the official terminology.

 

It seems we are about to start bombing ISIS or ISIL (mustn't say Islamic State) targets in Syria, which seems perfectly reasonable to me - they don't recognise borders after all . It can't be long before we commit troops to the area.

 

Corruption. Corruption. Corruption.

Banks control corporations who in turn control Governments.

And to think there are still people who believe that we live in a democracy and Government work for us!!!

I dont know what is more frightening if I'm honest - the corruption itself or the apathy of the people when all this information is readily available and so easily accessable?

Before the advent of the internet this kind of information would rarely be leaked to the general public and if it was there would be an outcry.

Now it seems, we have so much information available that people are just completely immune to its content and meaning.

 

Great post by the way SB.

 

The poor always hate the rich!

 

And the rich will always fear the poor. With good reason.

I wouldn't be against that, but it won't solve the problem and would probably increase the number of small group/lone wolf attacks in the west. Cameron is right on one thing at least, this is going to be a very long term 'battle', which ultimately will only be concluded through education and the liberation of women. Don't hold your breath.

 

If current events at Dover don't spell out my theory on the UK just being a big shop I don't know what does

This island depends on little else than financial products and arm sales
All wrapped up in lies

Of course people want to come into our shop because it's a shop lifting paradise .

All of this born of a dream to be rich or to the liars who can't face themselves ... Comfortable

I read yesterday that only 13% of young people in Hackney could ever afford to buy where they were born
That figure was 53% two years ago

Soon most areas will be like that

There is a sale on and most are still maxing out their wealth against their houses ... How is that going to end?

It's on a knife edge IMO and if the goods aren't getting into the shop what use is money ?

Save yourselves and start learning to make your own things Trouble is even if you produce expect to defend everything

It's happening

 

......of course they do as it is the rich that have invariably made them poor!!!!

 

And as Sb says the rich fear the poor.

Has always been thus, particularly when it is aided and abetted by politicians attempting to get votes from the poor and funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other!

 

I fear the poor, don't want to get mugged.

 

Some interesting stuff here, worthy of a wider audience than saddos like me who watch political discussion progammes after midnight.

"ideas are more dangerous than men with guns"

 

Very interesting.

Meanwhile, almost unnoticed in the West, the Chinese stock market has collapsed by 33% over the last few months, making tens of millions of small investors, who thought they were on some kind of escalator which would go up forever, a bit poorer. The continued slowing of growth in China (which of course could never have continued endlessly) could have all sorts of unwanted consequences for them and us.

 

Good clip, I like Andrew Neils programs on Thurs eve and Sundays, so I hold my hand up to being a saddo too

I think we must remember that for all the talk of idealist Islam within the death cult ISIS, it is manned largely by ex-Saddam Basthist sunni muslims who are mad as hell at having been kicked out of power, which is a more basic motivation.

Cameron doesn't want ISIS to become THE Islamic state, in the way that,say, Israel is THE Jewish state, otherwise it will attract a greater following. I'd say he has a point.

 

Nice sidestep on the Islam thing - am I obsessing?

Can't say I am too concerned about a collapse on the Chinese stock market. Couldn't slowing of growth in China be a good thing? Economic growth just means speedier consumption of finite resources.

 

Who'd have thought it? A Tory adviser agreeing with something I suggested on another thread - that the government should make employers pay the living wage.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...ohan-silva-firms-must-be-forced-raise-low-pay

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The Tories say they support working people, so they should push this through. My only slight concern is that smaller employers may feel they can't afford the higher wages and so offer fewer jobs. But this was said about the minimum wage, and no problems were encountered when it was put in place.