Self Identity: Who Are We?

Yeah I get that but things change quite quickly in football particularly in the PL which I was why I tend to look back a but further, otherwise you (not you specifically) end up classing Bournemouth as bigger than the likes of Leeds/Villa which obviously is a tad silly.

Worth mentioning Sunderland as I think they spent a decade in their most recent spell and also lost a cup final so quite similar really.

 

Just had a look and they averaged 26k last year and currently a bit less so far this year. 26k is roughly what we averaged in our promotion season I believe but you would have to acknowledge they've been in the lower leagues for 15+ years and I bet they'd maintain 40k if they were promoted.

We'll have to agree to disagrees on West Ham, not sure what makes you think our fanbase is a similar size to us? Think they have consistently averaged more than us both home and way, and have kept their home average up to about 30k during their championship seasons in recent history I believe.

QPR and Fulham same stature as West Ham, it's your turn to be joking right? May as well compare Boro' to Sunderland

 

In my eyes West Ham are basically a second tier side who occasionally make the big time for a few seasons before eventually getting put back in their place. Same as QPR and Fulham. And Sunderland, and Middlesbrough

 

And us bar one long stint?

Might be a generational thing too I suppose with West Ham (though you may remember their good teams), they've never played outside the top two divisions either have they?

I always put Sheffield Wednesday in these things but thinking about it I'll have to re-assess if they don't come up again in the next few years.

Are you sure it's not just an irrational dislike of them for you like Spurs?

 

Anyway, thought that'd get a debate going

 

Maybe I have an irrational prejudice against West Ham, can’t think why though. I always thought of them as an underdog club, a bit like us. The last 2nd division club to win the FA Cup, something that was always at least a possibility when I was a kid.

Yeah, they’ve had some good sides, and some great players over the years; their good sides, like ours, tended not to stay together very long, unfortunately.

Nah, on balance I respect West Ham - their supporters that is, not the current porn baron owners. Plus, they hate Spurs

 

For those interested this season marks our 40th in top flight football out of 130 odd years, so less than a third of our history though we obviously didn't join the FL until 1920 so it's actually 40 out of just under 100 which is pretty good really.

40 makes us 27th on the list in terms of seasons spent in top tier which is pretty impressive actually if you take the SL years out.

Anyone name the top 6 in order without cheating?

 

Yeah I've always quite liked West Ham too, perhaps that's clouding my judgement the other way?

Spot on in that the owners are ****s though, still the lesser of two evils compared to the North London Yobbos mind.

Didn't know that about them being last second tier side to win the cup, was that 1980 with the Brooking header?

 

Doesn't it depend on what a club achieves more than the actual fan attendance?? There are quite a few clubs that you would consider to be bigger clubs than us that are in the lower leagues. Aston Villa, Leeds Utd, Derby county and the Sheffield clubs just to mention a few. All of whom are more than capable of getting larger crowds than us. If you're in the premier surely you have to be one of the top clubs in the country? You drop out you would not be considered to be a top club.
On another note I know my memory plays tricks at times but didn't I see a world wide list of the richest clubs in the world? Didn't Saints come out somewhere in the top twenty or thirty at the time?? Might make you laugh....but Bournemouth are considered to be a top club. Just because they are in the premier.........So I guess what Im saying is if you are constantly winning things and spending big money no matter your crowd size you'd surely be considered a big club?? Look at Chelsea a few years ago before and just after the Rusky came on the scene. Average crowds around 30,000. The're not a lot more now are they??

 

Yep. Pity Trevor Brooking couldn't do the same for England in the 82 World Cup.


Trevor Brooking is another reason to like West Ham actually. Proper gent, that bloke. Lest I get too misty eyed though, it's worth remembering that a certain Harry Redknapp spent most of his playing career at West Ham.

 

The ambition of the club has been very clear. Whereas we were a mid table club with rare sorties in Europe, we now aspire to challenge the top 6 with regular European football.

Personally I just want to see entertaining football with an emphasis on home grown players.

 

I'm guessing I'm a similar age to you, and therefore have some difficulty adjusting to seeing Chelsea as a big club. But they are, without a doubt.

Things change all the time, in football as in life. In European terms, both Milan clubs have always been massive, but would you call either of them that now? While Atletico Madrid had no profile outside the Spanish capital until fairly recently. Sevilla the same, the city was always more famous for it's historic architecture than it's football team.

 

The rich list is a silly way to judge club size imo as the PL money is so huge it distorts it, we had a higher income than Inter Milan recently ffs!

Bournemouth will never be a bigger club than Villa.

How many teams 'constantly win things'? Very very few and so I'd say it's moot when discussing clubs outside the big boys.

I would say that fanbase and history would still come into it even if a team is successful. City could win the next 5 consecutive PL's and pick up 3 EC's in that time and they still wouldn't be as big as Liverpool/United.

Funny you mention Chelsea as they're not a club who I'd consider big historically (so below a lot I've mentioned like Villa, Everton etc.) though I'm sure they'd sell more seats now if they had the capacity.

 

I'd argue that's unrealistic personally.

Couldn't agree anymore with the last sentence though, what it's all about for me.

 

I cant disagree....but when you think of the changes over the years in clubs fortunes. I don't mean going broke........I mean clubs that used to be considered big clubs. Preston north end, Blackpool yes even Pompey and Sunderland again to name a few. When I used to listen to the scores on the radio as a nipper these were all in the first division and considered to be the best and biggest clubs in the country!! Nearly every one of them having some very famous players playing for them. The likes of Tom Finney, Stan Mathews to name a couple.
I'm not sure the actual size of the club...IE maximum crowds comes into it any more........just the world wide support perhaps. For a couple of years after 76 we had quite a decent world wide support especially in China strangely. (Draper tools days I think) I saw Saints shirts nearly every where I went. Obviously this was after the advent of the television. I was in Kenya in I think it was 1978 out in the bush and what did I see...a guy wearing a Saints shirt........never forgotten it.

 

When i think of big clubs i do it by feeling rather than the myriad of stats that can back up or contradict an argument.

Some clubs just fell like big clubs

 

Based on population and how many clubs share the city, Leeds should be the best-supported club in the country. Nearly 800,000 people there for one club. That's three times the population of Southampton.

Interestingly, Bradford are second on that list. Nearly 550,000 population.

 

I find talk of clubs’ history fascinating, but in the light of the here and now, largely irrelevant. As Beddy says above, clubs like Sunderland, Preston, Derby, and even our own beloved Pompey have all won the top division title, but their current positions aren’t close to where we are. I always come back to the fact that football is a cyclical, here today and gone tomorrow affair. The current “big six” as people like to call them, won’t necessarily be at the top in ten years time.

I like to see my team competing at the highest possible level, in as many competitions as possible, for as long as possible. Realistically, Saints should be able to win a cup in the next few years and get through the group stage of the Europa the following year. That’s the stuff of legends for a club of our size, but staying in the top flight, the bread and butter, is essential for the revenue that keeps us going.

 

Relegation fodder, but don't feel bad, at least a third of the league are relegation fodder. I don't think you'll go down though, there always seems to be a few basketcase clubs in the PL.

 

I'm sure the Newcastle area is a similar size to Bradford, happy to be corrected though.

Leeds is a huge City for one club really.