Football, but not as we know it - Discussion

Let's face it, we're the odd ones out in this top 6 battle. The 5 clubs above us all play good football and have got there because of it. We on the other hand attempt to grind out results in the belief that at the end of the day only the points matter. Even those behind us down to 10th spot have some quality on the ball - Blackburn the other night was the latest evidence of that.

Essentially the battling style was built by Warnock in his image after th turgid years of Slade and Trollope, but not always recruiting right the players to suit it - Bobby Reid, Murphy, Tomlin, Glatzel all would have been better suited in a different system. They were bought an then generally ignored by Warnock because they didn't suit his methods and the likes of Pato and Pelts were the order of the day.

Harris is talking the right language and there is evidence that it's getting through on the pitch. I just wonder if we were firstly to battle our way to get a shot at the playoffs and then actually be fortunate to win it, where the hell do we go from there next season in the Premier League?

Realistically, would we virtually need a new squad or at least some real quality additions at great expense to stay there, or do we battle on (a la Warnock) like last time in the hope we can just keep 3 other teams behind us?

Obviously got to get there first, but some huge questions to be answered. I'd even say that if we're still in the Championship next season, similar issues albeit at a lower level will need to be faced.

 

Same thoughts as me Sparks but much more eloquently described.

Basically, were we to go up we would be Donald Ducked. VT was more cautious with the cash last time and would be even more so if we repeated the feat, for reasons already listed.

It is the pride of a football fan that makes us want to strive for a higher level and be on the same field as the top sides, I was going to say, compete but thought better.

To be honest if we got to the play offs the Florists are the only ones we would have a chance of competing with. As I'm not looking forward to Fulham tomorrow the thought of Brentford over 2 legs is even less attractive.

For me, another season where we are, with Harris being able to build on what he has started is a better option, even if it means chewing on a bit of humble pie in the meantime subject to who makes the playoffs instead of us.

This should not be read as a lack of support for the club but a sense of realism.

 

We've had the debate over a number of seasons about being ready to go up. Even Colin said we went up a season too early.
The thing is, youve got to take it while irs there. We may not go up and then tank next season. We could go up and get taken apart every week.

Putting my pragmaric hat on, another couple transfer windows to allow Harris to refine his squad and further embed his approach would see us in a better footballing place.
Though maybe not in a better position in the table.

I think we take what we can and see what happens.

Just hope Tan is reasonable with a budget.
Dont expect him to throw millions at it but equally dont want the wage bill to be pennies.

5 out, 4 in and a few youngsters will be fine. Need to hang onto ward though.

 

Good points fellas.

Let’s be honest here not one of our squad is good enough for a PL team.

Last season several of those with better players around them had a reasonable season but I can’t see that working again.

So in short the squad would need a major upheaval to be of PL standard which is highly unlikely or possible given the new season starts in such a short time with restrictions on travel to scout.

Back to this season and I’m disappointed with Harris for his starting team selections and timing of subs v Charlton and Blackburn.

Derby will come here next week seeing this as a must win game and like Blackburn will attack. If Harris doesn’t get the tactics and personnel right, and his players perform as limply as they did then, there’s only one result sadly.

Personally I never expected to be in the top 6 and if we do then you never know but if not then we go again next season but Harris in either scenario needs to get better players in. A younger type of a Tomlin. A younger version of Hoilett and say tara to several including Paterson, Murphy, and Pack for example.

 

OK, so, I'm going to take a slightly different stance here.

I wholeheartedly agree that for much of the season we've not been attractive to watch, however, I'd much rather see us creating chances by going forward quickly rather than try be a cheap imitation of Man City et al.
Harris is bringing more subtlety to our play which is very welcome but I don't want us to become a borefest like Man City can be and like the Jacks were during their supposed Swansalona days....

Agree we'd definitely need some fresh recruits with a little more quality in all departments except perhaps goalkeeper, however, having watched quite a few VERY poor quality games in the Premier League I don't believe wholesale changes would be required.

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc. could quite possibly be within reach of us with a little more tinkering and more time to continue developing our style under Harris.

Don't forget, for all the plaudits Liverpool have gained this year, they play a hell of a lot of route one balls!!

 

Thanks for the replies.

We've got there twice now and failed to meet the challenge each time. Firstly with Malky and then Solskjaer at the helm, we were doomed through inexperience in management and also naivety of ownership. When we came back down, we had to put up with cost cutting and mind numbing management under Slade.

Second time around under Warnock there was no lack of experience in management, but dubious purchasing decisions backed by Tan and Dalman when we got up there (and even before - remember Madine?) saw us play one trick football that dogged our game and condemned us to reegation. We can argue about biased and duff refereeing decisions as much as you like, but we were just not good enough.

When we came down there was a school of thought that believed it was the right time to change tack - I was one of them. Tan and Dalman's belief in Warnock ruled the day and the rest is history. The Championship has changed in the last couple of years and we've suffered because we haven't.

Warnock has gone and now we have Harris who has essentially had to work with the tools (sic) he was handed. Change can take time but it should have started at the beginning of the season not half way through it.

If we'd changed tack back last summer, I wouldn't have expected us to be challenging right now because a re-build takes time. As it is, we still have a chance and if it does come off, I just hope we've learned and history doen't repeat itself.

 

Thing is Sparky, putting duff/dodgy refereeing to one side, we weren't too far off survival last time, despite our neanderthal brand of football.

Prettier teams such as Fulham, Huddersfield, Leeds, Bristol City (briefly looked half decent), Swansea (pfft), Derby etc. etc. etc. have either failed to go up or failed to stay up in an even worse manner than us and our lack of ability.

Personally for clubs like ours is believe a balance needs to be struck between playing half tidy football at times and getting back to basics as opposition and circumstances allow.
I'm beginning to believe that Harris is taking us in this direction.

Just watching Bournemouth v Spurs.... little quality on show and a very dour game yet again.
Can honestly say that the Championship games by and large have been more entertaining and skillful than the Prem since the restart.

 

Sorry Brizz, if we'd stayed up playing that sort of football I'd have taken that, but the fact is we would have blagged it.

Warnock drummed into everyone that we were never going to compete with that top 6 or 8 clubs due to the vast player quality differential and that was a fair shout - we all said as much on here. There were still a dozen teams we could have had a pop at if the personnel and tactical nous were made available.

The problem was we didn't give ourselves a chance with a barely luke warm summer transfer window, and then to cap it all, Warnock didn't even play £21M worth of players he'd just bought because they didn't fit his game plan. FFS

To be honest, we probably employed the most effective tactic against gifted opposition and that was to play Championship brand of football whereas Fulham tried to compete on level terms and paid the price.

I desperately want the club to play at that level again but this time make a serious attempt at competitive football, not struggle to string 2 passes together and get picked apart. Apart from the privilige of experiencing such talented players visiting our stadium, I didn't enjoy it at all.

 

What gets me is how Burnley and to a lesser extent Brighton keep on surviving and in the formers case each season with ease.

City last season were better by miles against Burnley on both occasions but lost both games.

 

Burnley are the team Warnock said we should aspire to be. Dyche is a far better manager than his brash exterior would suggest. He's got it right at the moment like Howe did at Bournemouth a few years back but in a totally different way. They beat us twice last season by turning the tables on Warnock by using his tactics against us. We should never have lost either of those games but we fell into a "Warnock" style trap.

The home games against Wolves and Bournemouth stick in my mind. We won them both by doing something different. We surprised Santo with our 5 at the back wingback setup, and Howe wasn't expecting the intensity of our midfield/forward play.

We can play a different game and should vary it, not give the opposition a free hit by doing exactly what they expect us to do. We need the right combination of manager, coaching and playing staff, and it remains to be seen whether the first two of those are already in place - then it's a question of the squad.

 

The New Forest air is doing wonders for your senses of reason and eloquence Sparks.

We came back from Poole yesterday but return on 20th for another 16 days although my wife staying longer as furloughed for another month at least.

Rick Stein's place on Sandbanks was excellent. Glad I wasn't paying though. Phew!!!

 

It must be that and the Peronis that's doing it...........

Weather set fair for the next 10 days down here - not sure about after that though........

Don't do Rick Steins - I'm more of a Brockenhurst's Rainbow Fish Bar type (with large chips)

 

We had excellent fish and chips from a chippie by Poole Park last Saturday night. As I said, glad I wasn't paying at Rick's.

 

Whatever team takes the field next season cannot have Paterson, Murphy, Hoilett, anywhere near it.

 

Derby 3-1 down at home...they’re not worthy either! Now let’s hope Preston do not win!

 

How's Brockenhurst today Sparks? Had a nice little jog from Newton to the shelter at the foot of the hill to Lock's Common and back. Punctuated by a deserved coffee at Piccolo.

Lovely weather but both Newton and Porthcawl getting very busy with traffic stacked back up Danygraig Hill by mid day.

Nice to see all the pubs at Newton have had an external lick of paint ready for outside opening in next few days. Should all be open inside on 3rd August.

Something to take our minds of our sh1t football. However with Direby losing and Leeds to stuff the Jacks tomorrow, somehow we can still be in the top 6.

Will Harris make the changes needed for Direby? Can Brad Smith play right back? At least he would be fresh. Tomlin and Glatzel must start even if it means a change of shape.

 

Hi Bluey - just back in myself from a quick run around the forest - only I was in my car.....

Lovely weather down here as well, but it's noticeably busier this Saturday than in the week. Brockenhurst itself is great but Lyndhurst is packed with weekend trippers as well as the locals. Lots of money down here - the place is teeming with Porsche Carreras and Range Rover Evoques.

As I say just got back in and saw that Derby had lost, so it's up to us now but as I've said before we can do nothing about the Jacks - let's hope Leeds can.

 

You took both your cars then?

Just spoke to wife's niece at Parkstone. Cloudy there. Porthcawl now rammed. Hope they take their litter home - unlike last time.

Florists beating Preston last time I looked.

 

Now drawing and Blackburn equalised v Baggies.

 

Sun in and out now, but back at the ranch and enjoying a drink in th garden. Dogs are happy with a couple of footballs on the lawn - they're playing better stuff than City at the moment.......

Was getting low on the Peronis so popped into Tescos in New Milton on the way back. No Peronis but had 20 bottle packs of Stella at a tenner a box. At 50p a bottle I succumbed to the temptation (you wont get that price in Wales). Had to have 2 packs to keep me going until tomorrow........

Anyway, another week to go down here if I can stand the pace...........