Lee Johnson and Leadership Skills.

To me, establishing ourselves as a Championship club, after I've spent so many years watching us in the 3rd tier of English football playing the likes of Crewe, Southend - or even Bristol Rovers was a (partial) success, not a failure. The only 'failure' was we didn't make the playoffs - but we've only done that ONCE since Alan Dicks and that was under Johnson senior, so basically EVERY manager since then has failed too.
Actually, he did much better than I expected when he was appointed - I was VERY underwhelmed and thought he would be gone in 6 months after taking us back to League 1.
To me, relegation, going into administration or a FFP points deduction or even BEING in League 1 constitutes failure. Fighting at the top end of the second tier does not.
As for investment then if one is going to criticise LJ for the flops then one also should to credit the same person for the successes.
It's simple maths - did we spend more money on buying players than we made by selling players during LJs tenure? If we did then we've spent more than we've earned, so we've been financially wasteful. I'm sure someone (GJF perhaps?) can do the maths and settle the financial debate/disagreements once and for all, so it doesn't keep getting brought up on every LJ thread - this argument is easily proved - unless people choose to believe that it was LJ who BOUGHT and MA who SOLD of course...………
As far as LJ the person is concerned; no amount of debating on here will convince people to like someone that they just don't, so it's not even worth bothering.
Some people, like Wiz and Redprintt simply don't like him - and that's fine - it's their prerogative to like or dislike who they want - just like it's their choice what religion (or not) they align to, or what music they like/dislike. It doesn't need justification - they simply don't like Lee Johnson and never will - and I'm sure LJ doesn't lie awake at night upset by it, but not liking someone doesn't make them crap - I REALLY dislike Roy Keane but he was a brilliant defender. I dislike what I see/read about Lewis Hamilton but he's a fantastic F1 driver.
For my part; I don't like or dislike the man. He was our manager for 4 years and I supported him during that time (as I have done EVERY manager at BS3 - including Holden now) and occasionally defended him against what I felt were unjustified attacks by people who simply wanted to have a pop at Lee Johnson, but that doesn't mean I actually LIKED him. It was right that he went when he did - he had clearly run out of ideas and it was time for a change.
I do admit though that Lee's spin does p!55 me off - to the extent that I simply don't listen to it or read it - in fact I can't even bring myself to read the article that this entire thread is about because we all know what it will be like - waffle and spin, but that doesn't make his tenure a failure - it just makes him annoying to listen to.
It does prompt these debates though - which provides some light entertainment during lockdown!!!

 

But you had that opinion of not liking him from day 1, same as RP, so all of that was before the reasons you now state! You can't now start claiming after fact issues are the reason you disliked him.

 

All of which DH now has the benefit of (without having to build), so if he doesn't improve us by more than 3-4 places this season, is he a failure and should be sacked?

 

Personally I like Dean and would think it harsh if he was sacked and to be honest, I'm glad we picked him over Hougton.
The point for me is that if we don't progress on last season then the reasoning behind the sacking of LJ would have been pointless.
The haters got their way, lets see where it takes us...................and unlike the haters that was waiting and praying LJ would fail for all to end in tears, I really hopes DH gets us promoted..

 

Every club in the Country has a turn around. Fact of football. Clubs and Managers plan for it. Mr Johnson had vastly more resources at his disposal than previous Managers to put his strategy in place to deal with inevitable turn around.

Turn around does not mean you throw away intent or the dna, models and identity Mr Johnson free spoke about.

Mr Johnson did not have to sell his best players to play his best football. Bobby Reid was moved deeper not because of players leaving but of players regaining fitness and players being brought in. Circumstance saw Reid being a makeweight striker. Johnson shifted Reid away from his successful role when Famara was fit. The high press was abandoned. Djuric returning, Diony joining in the window moved the team further from the fast short passing high pressing style.

Bristol City became a hoofing team in the same season v Cardiff. Intent? Dna? Models? Identity? No best players had left. Mr Johnson had totally abandoned these supposed principles.

The link I posted is full of modern footballs approaches that Mr Johnson does not follow. His own ideals.

Initially I posted enthusiastically in regards to Mr Johnson. I defended his rhetoric, his use of technology, building through thirds it was initially joined up thinking. That turned to thinking he was the Emperors new clothes. A mass of contradiction .. A contradiction that held BCFC back and wasted large sums of money and opportunity.

 

Deano is definitely better in front of the press than LJ - of that there is no doubt. It's refreshing not to hear LJs waffle and text book spin.
Whether Deano is better in the dugout still remains to be seen; after all, Lee's tenure was 'streaky' and there were good times as well as bad - we had a good start to LAST season - and the season before that too. Lets see how this season pans out.
The signs are good so far - apart from his inexplicable habit of starting with Fammy - I don't understand that - and if he persists then the honeymoon will very quickly end because we won't win many games with that approach.

 

laid the base for the future … complied with the "plan" ...revised 5 pillars … helped develop players that got rid of our debt and...
IMO helped to hinder our advancement as we on here mostly agreed had a team and sold off the family jewels.. all be it with terminology of "if he aint happy best he goes" in most cases.
hindsight is amazing I look back and think had only we kept so and so … had only we spent a bit more … and well it had to be done we got rid of our debt … and along comes covid!

 

City had to sell players due to the losses made and to comply with ffp and still the club still lost a lot of money.

 

Funny thing the average or maybe just below average team .. is 'streaky' and there were good times as well as bad - we had a good start to LAST season - and the season before that too … the only important thing is no one see's the future an example HULL CITY beat us in the play off … had they ditched their manager after 20 - 23 games they wouldn't have got there? Leeds year upon year was almost there until last year [ ok changed managers for last couple of seasons but foundations were there] … WHAT counts is points on board when in the played column it says 46 …. we all look at things differently.. …. HARDEST GAMES = top 8-10 teams and Derbies! Easiest should be bottom 8-10 [ often they prove a little more difficult if in 4 way fight to avoid it]
Play all the bottom ones last 12 games is top 6 or 7 away …. or had a bad run mid season when had to play top 6 or 7 away ETC etc
what would you prefer? play 12 games with a mix of top middle bottom..... play 12 with 4 away and 4 home v top 8 teams and 4 from mid to bottom ….

 

I came to Bristol with another plan. This one, to build an identity that runs all the way through the football club, and to be here for as long as I can.

The other day, I watched a video of our Under-12s scoring four goals against Cardiff, and every one of their goals was in the same pressing style we’re playing in the first-team. That’s the stuff people don’t see.

That’s the stuff that shows the identity building is well under way.

https://www.coachesvoice.com/lee-johnson-bristol-city-oldham-athletic/

When he left there was no sign of this identity that runs all the way through the football club or the footings going in for the identity building, Tombola signings tactics selection and football!!!!

 

Fed up with talking about Lee Johnson
He's history.

Up the City

 

to me Deano was the obvious choice, based on SL & Ashton stating needed to keep a plan in action to have seamless progression …. I had money on him not a lot and didn't win a lot … bringing in 2 new coach's was a surprise but in the order of things both new coach's have managed so bye Dean promote a coach! Stability is key [ in almosteverything ]

 

yep bitterness often runs deep we are in a new world now … no crowds ..No LJ … no hope of promotion! tic …..
lovely day off for a walk …

 

R&W mentions Keane and Hamilton, sure he could mention numerous others.
He fails to mention they achieved everything by their own talent.
Junior is where he is by default and nepotism. Absolutely zero talent but full of tripe.
Surprised people can't see through the bull sh+t. Hey ho.

 

Of the games I've seen this season, I don't see any high pressing and the passing at times have been dreadful. I think we're in a decent position in the league without actually playing that well. The midfield is no more creative, our front men aren't any more prolific and more often than not Bentley has been our saviour.
It's quite often the case that being forced into changes be it because of injuries or fitness etc comes up trumps, plenty of players have gone through it and found a more suitable role..It happens.
The reason you abandon a style with the players you have is when they are not working....LJ tried, where as Cotts couldn't & didn't.

 

Ok I am having a bit of a JGF moment - and it's quiet at work right now.....

Balancing the books under LJs tenure - the FACTS

Source: Transfermarkt - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bri...98/plus/0?saison_id=2021&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=

Lee was appointed in February 2016 and left in July 2020.
Season____Spent (£m)____Earned from sales (£M)
16/17______11.34_________12.8
17/18______12.09_________2.97
18/19______ 9.14_________ 26.55
19/20______ 30.11________43.86
20/21______ 0___________3.69

Total_______62.68________89.87

PROFIT over Lee's tenure: £27.19m

Even if you discount ALL the money from sales in LJs first season, because they were Cott's players then we are STILL £14.39m in PROFIT. Also, if doing this then you also need to factor in future profit from CURRENT players that Lee signed when they are eventually sold in the future.

Phew - thank goodness we don't need to debate about how much money Lee has spent any more - perhaps we could hear about how much he EARNED us whilst he was here instead??!!! I doubt it somehow...…...

 

Nor me, the last 2 games, especially the Reading game was just passing across our backline then belting it forward. We can cite the injuries, but there are no injuries to our forward line, and the 2 midfielders that are injured are not proven at all in the starting 11, so hard to make case that their absence is to blame.

I think DH has the players, it's how he uses them. Playing Fammy up top on his own is not the way, DH has been at the club long enough to know that, look how much better we were as soon as Chris Martin came on.

I also agree that it's refreshing not to have some of the BS spouted after games that LJ was responsible for.