Off Topic Politics Thread

A broadside at spaffer from the Mail. The knives are out who's behind Boris? Et tu Brute.

 

I'm not defending those comments if true but things do get said in the heat of the moment. And I do agree that the last thing this country needs is another lockdown. There's no reason why deaths will rise out of control again, with the majority of the most vulnerable protected by a vaccine.

 

I agree going forward , we shouldn’t need more lockdowns because of the success of the vaccine programme.
But did Boris say what he has been alleged to?
Don’t know but sources are ready to go public.

 

I think it was as recently as the Easter Bank Holiday than there was a political programme of Radio where a small panel discussed the fact that the success with the vaccine roll out had effectively transformed Boris's reputation and that the criticisms levelled against him would soon be forgotten. The suggestion was that people would be prepared to ignore his failings and that as he was delivering the outcomes that so many people had wanted regarding dealing with Covid and Brexit, it future reputation looked assured.

I have to admit that the the issue of "Tory sleaze" drummed up by Starmer did seem pretty pathetic and maybe the vestiges of his involvement with the New Labour movement in the late 1990s. My initial impression was is this the best you have got? I am not too sure too many people really care about Greensill and government lobbying as most people assume it exists anyway. It is not a shock. In fact, te most shocking thing about it was that Cameron was involved. I thought he would have been better than this but it just goes to show that the Tories are effectively all the same,

Starmer has been especially fortunate in that he has been aided by the rat Cummings. Unfortunately, it has probably raised Starmer's stock by accident and making the Labour leader loom more effective and statesman-like than he actually is. I have to say that I agree with Tom's comment about remarks being made in the heat of the moment yet in this instance I think they really reveal the true nature of what a despicable character Johnson is. I think there have been numerous issues starting from the proroguing of parliament where his behaviour has been totally unacceptable. It is abundantly clear that he is not fit for any public office let alone PM. The "bodies piled high" comment should effectively end his political career yet we all know that this will not happen. Even it witnesses come forward, there will still be plenty of support for Boris and it will quickly be forgotten as a typical Boris "gaffe." He does not have the moral fibre to appreciate that, if these comments are true, they make any position he might hold totally untenable. I keep imagining the furore that we been made is Jeremy Corbyn has similar comments ascribed to him!

It does strike me as fascinating how typical these kind of "incidents" are with Boris and the Conservatives in general. It is rare for anything of this nature to cause problems for either Labour and Liberals. Although I am not a fan and acknowledge her party does have issues, the behavior of the Conservatives is a marked opposite to a modern party like the SNP who strike me as being very much the exemplar for a contemporary. political party.

I have made this comment before and been shot down for making it but I strongly believe that the Conservative party should either be broken up or, as a most severe measure, be proscribed. It's Unionist agenda is increasingly irrelevant in the light of the independent movements in both Scotland and Northern Ireland. The links with business are too close to ensure that it is properly serving the electorate whereas it's social agenda has , at best, generally been deplorable. I am not saying that the political Right should not have a voice. Rather, I believe that the Conservative Party has consistently shown that it is not responsible enough to fulfil this role. The sewer needs to be drained and I think a new party needs to form to fill the vacuum albeit it will have to move more towards centralist ground as happened during the coalition. Having a party like the Conservatives either in power or in opposition that it prepared to let it's citizen's die for the sake of Capitalism is wholly unacceptable. Any parliament that involves the Conservatives either in power or opposition should no longer be tolerated. The Conservative Party has some massive questions to answer and it's drift towards the Far Right is fast reaching a point where those politicians who consider themselves respectable need to react. Shame that Starmer is effective too weak to say it as it really is.

 

And shame that the self-serving Tory MPs don’t have the guts to come out against it. I am in (almost constant) communication with my local MP (I’m sure she’s totally fed up with me now and hardly responds) asking her what she and any of her colleagues who have any integrity (if there are any) are going to do about it. Seems to me that they’re all just happy to be pulling their big salary (and all the other benefits - some hidden, I’m sure) to keep their snouts in the trough. I am just SO hoping that the voters aren’t so blind as to vote them back in, but I’m sure the media will tell everyone how bad every other party is and how only the Tories stand for what’s right in the country and the gullible will soak it up. Pity people aren’t as bent out of shape about what has happened to this country over the last 10+ years as they were about the bloody European super league .......

 

While I agree with large chunks of what you have written, Ian, I would say David Cameron and his ministers have a considerable amount of responsibility to carry for their inept performance prior and during the EU referendum campaign. Indeed, Cameron opened the door for euroscepticism to engulf the Conservative party when he withdrew his MEPs from the EPP grouping of centre-right polítical parties and allied them to Poland's Law and Justice members.

 

The Tories were very clever in reinventing themselves in the wake of Teresa May's fáiled attempts to get her Brexit deal through Parliament, and with the vaccine rollout will be able to keep large enough members of the electorate onside. Unfortunately!!

 

As for Labour, perhaps Starmer is playing a clever game and letting them soak in their own fat. As this continúes to grow so to the likelihood of a huge blaze of their own doing, a táctic which worked brilliantly for Tony Blair in the years leading up to 1997.

 

An alternative idea, if Labour's support continúes to remain flat, and even shrink, will en debe for the left leaning parties - the Greens and Labour to merge their identities. A green and progressive socialist program to appeal to a much wider sector of people. They could start to win back support by proposing to increase the state pensión to minimum 1200 pounds per month per pensioner over the lifetime of the next Parliament. This could be achieved by raising the duty on petrol.as well as getting a fairer share from extremely wealthy people and companies

 

As a pensioner, that gets my vote

 

Unless parties on the left and center learn to work alongside each other, then the Conservatives will continue to have a massive advantage under FPTP. Worth reminding that even though this has happened with pretty much every government in this country, we have a system that elevates a party with 43% of the vote to 56% of the seats.

No coincidence that the two 'divide and conquer' parties (the Conservatives and the SNP) are the most successful. There is a massive void in Liberal Unionism that needs addressing if the UK is to survive, imo this can only happen if at minimum Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens (English and Welsh) stand down in each others marginals, which may be a pipe dream but anything less is political incompetence.

 

So...what do people think of Gove as PM? I think it's what Scummings is angling for.

 

A face you'd never tire of kicking.


Boris is the Tories best asset, or he was. He's likeable - corrupt, lazy, dishonest, yes - but people warm to him. When he goes, they're finished, unless Rishi gets the gig. Gove is a gargoyle.

Politics shouldn't be about personalities, it should be about principles. But it is what it is; Boris looks like the HoneyMonster. That's why he got elected with a thumping majority, and until recently got away with everything short of murder. Now he's getting murdered. Some scriptwriters are going to have a lot of fun with this in the future.

 

Can't see it happening. He is a clearer thinking individual, his delivery is far superior to Johnson but he just doesn't have the appeal. Neither does Johnson for that matter as his entire persona has been manufactured. If they are looking for a successor then Macron if he is dumped by the French electorate, which he won't be!

 

Could be the longest killing in history!

 

Do get the vibe Cummings is trying to get himself back in the driving seat and Gove is his man. Gove is the one who brought Cummings into the fold initially.

Unlike Johnson though, Gove is almost universally reviled, I just can’t see their membership going for him.

Sunak is the most likely, but it could easily end up being someone really left field if Johnson ever gets booted.

 

I think that the next Tory leader will be Savid Javid as the party will want as clean a break from Boris as possible. I am not even sure that the next PM would have Gove in the cabinet as he has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted.

 

While a change of leader.might be more palatable if this guy were chosen, would this be the best time to rearrange the deckchairs on RMS Torytanic? And there is a lot of fallout still to come in the wake of the triple bogies of Covid, Brexit, and sleaze, so any potential leader would not really want to step into Johnson's excrement.

(What is the term for a three over at a particular hole in golf anyone?)

 

A term I am extremely familiar with being a **** golfer .... a triple bogey .....

 

I found this an interesting read on Biden's first few months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56903805

There are a few things he is doing (or thinking of doing) that go against my personal political beliefs, but isn't it nice to have a decent human being in charge of the USA once again?