Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal

The passmaps tell a very different story

Against Southampton we were set up as we were last season, with Kane in the hole and Son up front, and he was getting plenty of the ball from
Against Chelsea they were doubling and even tripling up on our left flank, and he dropped deeper
Against Fulham he was getting plenty of the ball, with Bentancur finding him at will
Against the Runners he was playing deeper than Perisic and practically level with Bentancur

Most telling is the lack of lines into him, as there's usually one from Hojbjerg or Bentancur, and if we're lucky another from Sess/Perisic (although that's been disappearing in recent weeks) - but, crucially, none from Kane

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If Conte has bough Perisic expecting at his age
60+ mins of PL 90mph football games, he is a fool.

His experience is of great use attempting to help
the squad navigate the CL group stage in a
brutal season. When is he playing in PL games,
Spurs are looking to his crossing quality.

On the latter he has to date delivered.

 

The thing is that, at Inter, this was the midfield lineup
2020-21: Hakimi, Barella, Brozovic, Eriksen, Perisic/Young
2021-21: Dumfies, Barella, Brozovic, Calhanoglu, Perisic

The obvious thing there is there's a midfield three instead of a two-man pivot, but the composition also stands out
Brozovic reads the game and sets the tempo
Barella is the box-to-box
Calhanoglu/Eriksen is the creativity

We have Bentancur in the Brozovic role, we have Hojbjerg, Bissouma and Skipp in the Barella role...and a void for the Eriksen/Calhanoglu role

At this point this is where our 352 looks different, as we would have two box-to-boxes alongside Bentancur, albeit there's a difference in how Skipp, Bissouma and Hojbjerg operate as a box-to-box as Bissouma is based more in strength and control, Skipp is based on deftly moving the ball, while Hojbjerg is based on workrate and bloody-mindedness - and none are exactly going to be pinging through balls from deep to create a rapid turnover

 

I don’t think you have it quite right with us. I think Bentancur is naturally more of a 6 than an 8, though he’s capable of playing the latter role in a 2 or a 3. But Bissouma has been the more central of the 3 when we’ve played with the extra midfielder. He’s not really a passing 6, he’s a ball winner and progresses the ball by carrying it. That’s why he hasn’t really featured much in a 2 yet, he’s still understanding the balance between attacking and defending that Conte demands in that position.

Realistically if we play 3, Bissouma is probably best at 6, and then 2 of the 3 others ahead of him. Skipp and Bentancur can also play 6 but Højbjerg doesn’t have the positional discipline and it’s a waste of his running energy anyway. The closest thing at the club we have to a passing 6 is probably Harvey White, and we lack the 8/10 hybrid to replicate the Inter midfield. 352 will help us contest midfield battles and if we had Bissouma, Bentancur and Højbjerg on the field then that’s a lot of combative energy, but we’d be even more reliant on the misfiring WBs, and it forces us to leave out Kulu, who is the connector between our midfield and attack a lot from the right half-space. You could consider playing Kulu as a 10 ahead of two 8s, but I don’t know if that’s really a position he’s tried.

 

That's why I compared Bentancur to Brozovic, as he's more of a pace-setter - and the fact he's playing a more advanced role indicates something isn't quite right in getting the ball between the middle and final third, because he should be receiving the ball and transitioning from defence to attack - but if he's roaming higher up, that indicates there's a gap between midfield and attack and Hojbjerg isn't filling it, even though that's been his role this season compared to last

Which, again, brings us back to Harry Kane being told to play further up, which is where that gap's been created

Would now be a bad time to mention that I was calling for us to sign a through ball merchant in the summer...?

 

Agree with this. Going forwards I like Perisic but defensively he’s not solid enough and I’ve seen him get beat too much already. That said, he’s the best option there as Sessegnon has not improved enough (if at all) to make that position his own.

 

Honestly I get the impression Conte is still understanding the balance between attacking and defending that Conte demands in that position.

 

I think you absolutely can play Bentancur there but I think that means you have to rely on Bissouma higher up the pitch, which I don’t think is his natural game at all.

Ultimately if you’re going to play a midfield 3 we have to adapt to what we have. Bissouma is a really good 6 and is more than capable of giving us a platform in that position. It then depends on how wanted to structure the players ahead of him. You could be more functional and solid, with 2 of Skipp, Højbjerg and Bentancur ahead of him, or play 2 of the 4 with a forward in the pocket behind Kane and Son, likely Kulu.

Conte is a great coach but unless he can show some adaptability within his 2 systems then he’s going to just be another in a long line of good Spurs managers who have undoubted quality but no silverware to show for it at the club. We might not have the ideal players Conte wants for 352 but it’s increasingly clear that we need to be able to mix it up because teams that work us out are blunting us in 343 and we look increasingly vulnerable when we cede so much control of the midfield.

It’s important to be clear that this is about more than disappointment at yesterday’s defeat, which was more down to a debatable red card and individual errors than a tactical mismatch, though that was a factor. It’s been obvious since the first Liverpool game last year that 352 can be effective in certain situations and we’re underusing it. There are situations where we need to be more front-foot and aggressive and 352 gives us the opportunity to do that in midfield. When we have 2 in there it works but is by nature more passive against most teams, who have a midfield 3 of some description.

 

Interestingly, over on r/coys somebody is watching Conte's Chelsea side and says we're playing exactly the same as them - the difference being that Hazard was in the form of his life that season, while Kante somehow managed to be in three places at once as he could somehow cut out through balls and press defenders at the same time

And that also points to the difference: we don't really have a Kante-type player, although Bissouma could be close to one, which is also why talk of playing 352 has been building in recent weeks because if we can't have a player that does two jobs and has the workrate of two players on the pitch, we need the extra player

 

I wonder how Conte got to be recognised as a successful world class manager when so many of you know better than him?

 

Kante was a phenom back then, and still is when he’s fit. There isn’t a player who replicates that. Similarly, Hazard gave far more in tight spaces than Sonny, they’re different players.

Conte is clearly a top, top manager. He’s got players motivated and his attention to detail in a tactical sense is second to none. That doesn’t mean that others can’t work his systems out or that’s he’s not too dogmatic and inflexible at times, criticisms that have been levelled at him whenever he leaves jobs. Nothing wrong with suggesting an alternative solution to problems that are posed on the pitch, that isn’t just “Execute Plan A perfectly, every time”

 

Just about all of the footballing world knows Casemiro’s better than McTominay but your manager’s been insisting otherwise so far.

 

So we've got a manager who doesn't know what he is doing, three shocking wing backs, Dier can't play, the midfield partnership lack creativity, and our best two players are right out of form.
And we have 17 points from 8 games including 3 of our hardest six away games. And we dropped two or three points because Lloris threw one in and the ref gave a harsh red.

 

Yep…

 

Casemiro is not up to speed yet and will be fed in slowly.
What does all the footballing world think of that

Seriously, do you all know better than Conte?

 

McTominay’s never been up to speed. Casemiro at 10% is better than that oaf.

 

Ok

 

It’s a Spurs forum where Spurs fans give opinions and for some reason, rival fans love to post here too.

I don’t think any of us genuinely think we know more than Conte, but we are allowed to say when we think he has made mistakes and say what or who we would like to see

 

Fair play, no different than any other board on here (including ours)

Some of you do seem so certain of your opinions sometimes though that it makes me wonder if you think you need a new manager to suit your views

 

Kante is obviously a phenomenon. Hazard was also world class. However, i think Sonny suits contes system more than hazard. For one, he's a much harder worker and has far more energy. The other thing conte loves a bit of is a great counter attack and class finisher, both which i think Sonny offers more because he's far more athletic than hazard and a better finish imo. Hazard as you say is brilliant at drawing defenders and great in tight spaces but he doesn't have the top notch speed to get away from defenders like sonny does. Hazard is more consistent than sonny but when sonny is on it, he's deadly