Off Topic Politics Thread

That is being racist, yes. It's your perceptions that are racist. Being concerned about immigration doesn't make you racist, but seeing immigrants as a sinister tide, or swarm, of malevolent aliens threatening to engulf and overwhelm you, well...that's a racist perspective.

 

They are getting raped EN ROUTE. So no, Mexican rapists are not crossing the boarder to rape women. Mexicans rapists are mostly staying in Mexico, providing migrant shelters for women from Honduras on their journey. And raping them at the shelters. They are getting raped by Mexican gang members, not their fellow migrants. So yes, he is wrong. Really, really, horribly, disastrously, people-getting-killed-and-raped wrong.

And why are these women so eager to get to the US that they are willing to take the chance of getting raped, or even offer themselves up in exchange for a crossing? Because their present living conditions are so horrible, and probably already involve them getting raped, that they feel they have nothing to lose.

So then what happens when the borders are closed up, and these women get booted back to Mexico, with no money, or housing, or anything? They have no choice but to go back to the gang-controlled Mexican migrant villages where they got raped in the first place. And they will likely wind up working as sex slaves where they will be raped again and again.

Central America is not sending rapists to America. They are sending rape VICTIMS to America. Trump can't (or rather hasn't bothered) to make this very important distinction. He doesn't care whether they are the victim or the perpetrator, just that they've been associated with rape which is bad, and they are "Hispanic" so who cares? This is precisely why he is racist (and sexist) and a horrible human being.

You might think I'm exaggerating. But no, this actually happened. Trump was questioned about his comment that Mexicans were sending rapists to the US, and he quoted that 80% stat. It was pointed out to him that this meant that migrants from Central America were rape VICTIMS, not that they were rapists. And his response was--and this is his exact quote-- "Well, somebody’s doing the raping, Don [Lemon from CNN who was interviewing him]! I mean somebody’s doing it! Who’s doing the raping? Who’s doing the raping?”

Shouldn't you know who is doing the raping before charging people with being rapists and sending rape victims back to be raped again? I mean, having the actual facts might prove useful in the decision-making process.

 

There is really nothing wrong with Clinton other than your standard politician stuff. Hooks up her friends on the side, tells some lies to keep her position, etc. Trump is on a whole different fantastical crazy level.

I'm not a supporter of Clinton's spending policies, which I think will leave us too much in debt and in trouble but there's nothing personally appalling about her. And even then, Trump's fiscal policies (to the extent we even know them) are ten times more ridiculous. He's going to cut taxes tremendously but then spend insane amounts of money trying to deport all undocumented aliens.

It's like equating Tony Blair to Slobodan Milosovic. Yeah, they both engaged in some unfortunate war-mongery things and got people killed. You might not like either of them, but that doesn't mean they are remotely the same.

 

Incredible feat having over half million vote in a political party leadership election. I voted for Smith this time as I wanted the party to get its act together and starting going at this Tory government - but have always liked Corbyn and his politics personally (even if I suspect the country may turn its back on him and the party in a GE).

Maybe Grammar schools is the issue that can bring everyone together - even the most right wing Labour MPs (there are actually many fewer than people think - most opposition to Jeremy was on him personally rather than policy) accept its a disaster, and cannot argue with JC's position.

Hopefully progress can be made, and a strong opposition can emerge, and we can have a progressive government once again.

 

Labour are history. I read somewhere that 60ish percent of labour members pre 2015 voted for Smith. The lefties have flooded the vote and put Corbyn in charge. People may like him, he just seems so out of touch and arrogant about it. UKIP and Lib Dems are going to win quite a few seats in the next election.

 

Germany has allowed 1.2 million immigrants into the country to boost the work pool. as of 2 days days ago 670 have found a job with the others sucking germany dry. In the last 5 months in Stockholm 100% of sexual assults have been committed by immigrants (this data was given by the very liberal Stockholm Mp who was one of the first dudes pushing for a free border.
Allow migrants by all means, but cherry pick the ones who will add something to the country, not 20 year old men who have no trade, no education or way of supporting themselves, even if they are moderate muslims , they could made radical very easily once they get fed up with England. Anybody that thinks that Islam and democracy mix are sorely wrong. Saying not all muslims are bad is dumb, not all germans were Nazi but that never mattered.Any immigrants wanting entry into England should be vetted and checked and is really worth the effort? These young men are running away from their countries just to seek a bettre standard of life that someone else will have to pay for. islam is not a religion, it is an ideology, a way of life that does not tolerate any free thinking or any grey areas at all. In England 90 % of normal muslims denounce gays which push comes to shove means they would stand by and allow them to be killed, the 96 % believe stoning for adulterers to be correct as it in their book. It is part of islamic preachings to take over the world- it is not a religion of peace. Christianity went through this 600 years ago killing probably millions in Europe if you did not agree with the Popes teachings, Islam may calm down in 600 years but it would not matter as Europe will be a Muslim state within 100 years going on currant birth rates. Last year in London Mohammed was the most popular name for baby boys.
I do not live in England, it is not my taxes that will go to supporting millions of people that hate the country and hate you for not being Muslim.

 

Do you have evidence to support these particular claims? A recent survey for channel 4 (April 2016) revealed that 52% of muslims actually disagree that homosexuality should be legal, so nowhere near 90%. In the same survey 66% completely condemned people who took part in the stoning of adulterers with another 13% who condemned them to some extent, so again absolutely nowhere near to 96%.
When you say when push comes to shove they would stand by and let gays be killed you're mixing your 'statistics' with opinion and it just doesn't stack up.
I'm happy to provide the link to the channel 4 survey but I have no idea how to do it on here, it is easily found on google though.

 

That's the problem with trying to reason with bigots.

If they had any sense of logic or any willingness to check facts, they already wouldn't be bigots.

 

Don't know why I bother, but just think about this for just half a second.

670 employed people out of 1.2 million is a 99.94% unemployment rate. Does that seem at all plausible? In a country with a 6% unemployment rate overall? Use a bit of common sense.

But let's say this were somehow true. Germany's population is roughly 80 million. 1.2m is 1.5% of 80 million. So these unemployed immigrants should lead to a 1.5% increase in unemployment. And yet Germany's unemployment rate has DECREASED. It's at an all-time low, as a matter of fact.

So what's the problem? More immigrants and the country is better off than ever. These immigrants cannot be sucking Germany dry due to unemployment benefits if there are less unemployed than ever. Moreover, as a xenophobic bonus, the primary beneficiary of these extra jobs are native Germans, since if the unemployment rate is down overall, native German employment must have increased by more than 1.5% to offset the supposed unemployment increase caused by immigrants.

Your post doesn't make a lick of sense. It only takes a 5 second google search and 1/4 of a brain to figure this out.

 

Took your advice and took 5 seconds on Google and used 1\4 of my brain and came up with with link
https://www.ft.com/content/d5d0bb96-49a8-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab hope the financial times is good enough for you. I can not remember where I saw the 640 employed as this article says it's 54.
As it states, the immigrants are almost unemployable. 300,000 have been signed up looking for work with 54 finding a job which is even worse than the 99.94% you kindly worked out before. I guess the other 900,000 immigrants have not been processed for work or are being kept off the books if you are a conspiracy theorist

 

They close the border, make applying for us citizenship easier and quicker and then no one gets preyed on whilst trying to cross illegally and all the criminals can not just skip a cross to the US to to escape the federal police

 

Sorry I can not, I skip around alot of things but those figures I recall. The survey you show is 5 months old and views change, maybe the article I saw asked younger people I am not sure, still 50% of people hating another group of people is pretty scary.
Watch the clip to see what they really think when they are with like minded men
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4027.htm

 

I am not so sure. There is a real sense that the voting public have had enough to centralist political parties and people are generally becoming more polarised in their views. I don't see the Liberals existing as a political force much longer and parties like the Greens will gradually take more members away from them.

As far as Corbyn is concerned, the labour party under him has become the biggest politicalparty in Europe. Labour is resurgent and Corbyn is capturing the publc imagination more than any other politician since Tony Blair in the mid 1990's. Once Labour Party artivists start pounding the streets campaigning they will mop up a lot of UKIP support now that this party has no function in politics. As far as Labour being history, I think under Corbyn they will comfortably get elected and expect the party of be makimg history instead. Corbyn has really caught the zeitgeist of the times.

 

Where's your evidence that Corbyn appeals to the public? The Conservatives are regularly around 40% in the polls with Labour around 30% and regularly polling in the 20s. Those aren't anything like election-winning numbers.

I really think people are overplaying the party size thing. I don't see where or how Labour can come back. Short of some huge SNP implosion and/or scandal I think they're very much in the wilderness in Scotland and likely to remain there for some time. Ruth Davidson is actually doing a pretty good job of making the Conservatives the opposition to the SNP in Scotland. On top of that the new constituency boundaries are said to favour the Conservative party as well (and that's not a criticism of the Conservatives - the current boundaries are believed by many to favour Labour so this may just redress the balance) so even with a popular leader I don't see how Labour could win the next election.

 

No. It doesn't. Read the headline again.

 

Mexico is not sending massive amounts of rapists to the US. People are getting raped in Mexico en route to the US. So you, and Trump are wrong. 80% of women getting raped in Mexico<>80% of Mexican immigrants are rapists. You said that fact couldn't be disproven. In fact it can. Easily. Trump didn't read the article he was citing.

As to the larger issue, Mexico lies between the US and Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatamala. Unless you are going to give all these people plane tickets, they still have to cross Mexico to get to the US. So, they will still be making the same journey and face the same dangers.

Mexican criminals are NOT slipping between borders to escape police. The Mexican police... well, they kind of suck. It's easier just to stay in Mexico. These villages where the rapes are taking place are in gang-controlled areas of Mexico. Why would they run to the US to commit rapes when they can get away with it right where they are?

There is an intelligent debate to be had over immigration policy. Undocumented workers are a problem for the system because it essentially creates a shadow citizenry where some people have rights and obligations that other people do not. And, as much as it would be nice to take every needy person from everywhere in the world, no country can really do this.

But, this debate cannot take place with someone who thinks that 80% of immigrants are rapists. Or that the solution is to build a gigantic wall that Mexico will pay for. The idea of securing the boarders but making it easier to gain citizenship was a major part of Jeb Bush's platform. He lost to Trump, precisely because Trump said "No, they're all rapists so don't let any of them in, and kick out all the ones who are already here."

Trump tried to make a "pivot" on this issue, and promptly dropped in the polls. So then he went back to his original position. His support is based completely on the fact that a large segment of the US is racist, and these people do not want any dark-skinned people in the US.

 

I think there will be a shake-up in the current power structure among political parties.

I think though, that we will pretty much end up with the same centralist policies. Because in general a central policy sort of by definition appeals to the most people and is a compromise between extremes. Also because usually it makes sense practically. It's hard to run a completely libertarian or socialist government which is why we ended up with something in between in the first place. And cynically because politics is politics and politicians will always look after themselves first, so they will do what politicians have always done.

Take Brexit as an example. The Brexiters talked a good game, but once it passed they all got cold feet. England could still very well leave the EU, but there's not going to be all this money flowing to the NHS as promised. It's not going to happen as quickly or as seamlessly as they said. The manufacturing base in the the country will not be revitalized. And England if they leave, will end up negotiating treaties with other countries that look pretty similar to what they had under the EU.

So while things might seem to have changed with different leaders and different parties talking a different way, I think it will be business as usual.

 

Does kin

German companies reported not having hired any of the million plus migrants who arrived in the country last year.
The German government, International Monetary Fund (IMF), and Deutsche Bank predicted the migrants would be an economic boon for the country. Much of the international media echoed these claims, saying many doctors and architects were among last year’s influx of immigration to Germany.

In a survey by the Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung, however, most of the top 30 companies on the German stock exchange (DAX) said they were unable to employ any of the new arrivals. The companies said migrants lacked the necessary qualifications needed to fill any of their roles.

Although the companies surveyed employ four million workers, FAZ reported that between them, they had only hired 54 migrants.

Fifty of these are employed by the German post office, and the vast majority of top German companies hired none at all. Software giant SAP reported having two migrants working for them, and pharmaceutical manufacturer Merck also said they had hired two.

The Kiel-based Institute for World Economics estimated that only two per cent of recent migrants to Germany are employable. Professor Ludger Wössmann, director of the Centre for the Economics of Education in Munich, said his research showed at least two thirds of migrants can’t read or write.

At the International Motor Show in Frankfurt, Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said the migrant influx would provide Germany with an “economic miracle”. Saying migrants who traveled to Germany are highly motivated, the automaker said his company was “looking for such people”.

Despite these claims, FAZ revealed Mr. Zetsche’s company has yet to hire any migrants.

The newspaper reports that many DAX companies are involved in the “We Together” project. The project, launched by United Internet boss Ralph Dommermuth, aims to get migrants in employment.

FAZ reported that United Internet, and its subsidiary 1&1, employ 8,200 people. Of these, though, the companies have only five migrants working for them, all in trainee positions. They said they did not want to make promises they can’t keep.

I read it as 54

 

I'm deleting this post as it is both racist and inflammatory. Don't do it again or you may be banned. Final warning.

 

Keep reading. It's the second part of the headline that is relevant.

Anyway, Germany IMO has the same problem as England, US, and many other countries. They are moving towards service economies, so there is little demand for unskilled or manual labor. Those jobs are moving overseas to Asia, or they are being done by computers and robots.

Merkel floated this idea that there was a workforce population shortage in Germany, and that these immigrants would solve the problem. That was an overpromise, as these immigrants are at a severe disadvantage in terms of not understanding the language or culture and not having a support structure. So she deserves some criticism for that.

You are really taking these immigrants in out of kindness. At least in the short term. Most of them are unskilled and thus will have problems finding jobs. Not 99.99% of them, though.

Again, Germany's unemployment rate has FALLEN. We'll see what happens over the next year or so. I think there will be a rise due to all the immigrant inflow. That's where all these internships and attempts at integration will be put to the harshest test. If it works, the unemployment will fall again and Germany's GDP will increase. If not, it's going to be a major problem.