Off Topic Russian jet shot down...

Implying I'm a Kremlin stooge because I pointed out the fact the Ukrainian National Guard has fascist battalions under contract.

You still haven't provided a counter-argument, by the way.

 

That just about sums up the Swedish military for you! They've more chance of finding Nessy then the actual subs in the Archipelago...

 

Turkey has a convenient porus border with Syria. It allows opponents of Syria's President Assad, who they bitterly despise, to move freely. With an army of 650,000, the 7th biggest army in the world, Turkey could do a lot more to control its border if it chose to do so. They encourage and in some case support other groups to do the fighting for them in Syria including ISIS although that didn't prevent the morons sending suicide bombers to southern Turkey recently.

 

I found it funny that you described the Ukrainian Army as fascists and the Pro-Russian fighters as Rebels.

Sorry where we arguing? What point should I address?

 

Swedish military is grand, much like the Danish and Norwegian militaries. It's the ones at the top who are the problem, much like with our military in the UK.

 

I didn't say the Ukrainian Army were fascists, just said they had fascist battalions like Azov fighting under contract for them. And the pro-Russian separatists are rebels; rebelling against the government in Kiev, for right or wrong. Saying I drink the Kremlin's kool aid is rather immature when all I did was state facts. If I was a Kremlin stooge I'd be making a decent amount of money from it!

 

I'm ex-British Army and an Iraq war veteran, among others, and there is nothing much wrong with the UK top brass. In general they are experienced and battle proven.

The problem the Swedes have is they've not been in an actual conflict for many generations and exercises can only prepare you so much. Without getting political they ARE hampered by their government and public opinion that believes in neutrality as a concept. It only really works if the other side does too.

 

I feel that your positioning of the facts was very pro-Kremlin in that initial mail. If you think the term "drinking the kool aide" is offensive then I apologise. I guess I am more robust than some.

 

When I say people at the top I mean the ones cutting our standing armies, making them unemployed and leaving the ones still serving with outdated equipment. I commend and respect you for your service, by the way, even if I don't agree with the particular war you served in.

Regarding Sweden, they're not in NATO so you can't expect them to have much real experience but in general I'm led to believe the Scandinavian armed forces are competent, specifically their special forces.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ar-bomber-flies-undetected-20-miles-Hull.html

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/RAF-...ours-Russian/story-26332510-detail/story.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-intercept-it-in-mock-attack-UK-security.html

hull in the front line

 

No, I don't find it offensive, I just thought it wasn't necessary. I was just making a point that the airliner being downed over Ukraine has a pretty big shadow cast over it and there is no definitive explanation as of yet. It's pretty common knowledge that Ukrainian forces have several fascist battalions fighting for them against the separatists for various motivating reasons.

 

Considering that they ( Russia and Turkey ) are supposed to be on the same side along with NATO as a whole in the coalition of the good against ISIS it's a bit odd that they should shoot down this plane which entered Turkish air space for less than one minute. American planes are flying out of the Turkish airbase at Incirlik to carry out bombing missions in Syria.

 

I think that Turkey are skating on thin ice. However, It would be fair to say that all the information has not been made public.

 

Are you suggesting that time will tell?

 

It always does.

 

I'd suggest that time won't tell. We'll likely never find out what really happened, like MH17.

 

I'd suggest that this thread may well get shut down at some point soon.

 

Who to believe.

Plum sorted me out with some advice regarding NowTV so yeah, sorry Tickles.

 

no worries.

At least one of the pilots is now safe.

 

Just don't forget their coffee and party rings.