Off Topic Uber

I can confirm I'm yet to be sexually assaulted in any sort of taxi.

 

It should also be noted that Uber doesn't pay Corporation Tax in this country, like Starbucks and Amazon they are based abroad. However, new proposals currently being prepared for consultation may severely cramp their style...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11899018/Uber-faces-massive-crackdown-in-London.html

 

Comphrehensive Ninesy.

My point, clumsily put, about Warboys, is that all you hear about is that every Uber driver is some kind of threat/'unsafe', whereas I'd say any time you get in a car with someone you don't know there is an element of risk. The reason it's gone quiet on mini cabs is that they are turning their guns on Uber, because its a more direct threat - they can pick people up quickly on the street. Safety should of course be a big issue, but I feel it's being used as a football here.

Hailo - score draw. Like everything Hailo is a US app, emerged there in response to Uber, adopted here before Uber arrived - good for the UK cabbies, it's a great idea. But, like Uber, its very limited as where you can use it in England, 3 or 4 big cities, but all of Ireland. Thing I like about both apps is the payment. Of course they can be hacked and your details stolen, but 4 of the 5 times my card has been cloned have been in regular, licensed cabs - once in London, once in Harrogate, once in Warsaw and once in Paris. The other one was in an Indian restaurant.

Cartel - it's a cartel in the sense that only black cabs can pick up from the street, and numbers of black cab licences are limited - there is a bar to market entrance which protects existing providers. It could be argued that this is justified.

The knowledge - personally I think this is stunningly overrated, simply based on the number of times I've had to direct black cab drivers, and not in the outer suburbs, and the occasions that I have been very aware that they are taking a roundabout route. But, that aside, the Knowledge should be a competitive advantage, a marketing tool "Why trust a satnav when you can have the Knowledge?" There, I've even given them a strap line.

Pricing - the way you put it, again should be a competitive advantage, and surely will be once Uber's London pricing become's clear.

Access - exactly why licensing needs to be even and expectations clear. Are minicabs obliged to take wheelchairs, and are their drivers trained to get disabled passengers in and out of the cars? Seriously, I don't know. I do know that there was a local news programme here exposing how they illegally overcharged the disabled.

Tory/Goldman Sachs rant - you may well be right, though comment at the moment (see the Telegraph article I posted link to earlier) has it that Government is hindering rather than aiding Uber. Obviously, ideologically, they would promote competition. I didn't vote for the ****ers mate.

Black cabs will only die out if they put their case entirely negatively, as they and their counterparts in other major cities have done so far, with accompanying violence and threats/action to 'shut the city down'. The way you have described them they have considerable advantages over a bloke with a motor, they need to make these clear.

I honestly didn't realise that this was such an emotive subject when I put up the OP. Perhaps my personal experiences (and you always remember the bad ones rather than the vast majority of good ones) with regular cabs have clouded my judgement and made me overly keen on putting some pressure on them.

 

On the safety thing, I guess uber is safer than a normal minicab and maybe even a black cab as you know the identity of the driver before you get in and it's all recorded exactly which driver is where and when.

 

UBer in NY is not even close to 50%/60% cheaper than a yellow cab. With the Limos price is negotiabele at most times.

 

That's simply not true.

Mini cab and black cab drivers are all vetted by the respective local police force.

Uber drivers could be rapists or murderers as they as totally un-vetted by the police. The fact that you have a mug shot of them on your phone does not affect their criminal history in whatever part of the world they originate from.


As regards a level playing field,

Here are some further questions,

1. Do Uber drivers have sufficient insurance to carry fare paying passengers? Here at least, my insurance company require me to prove that I am licenced to carry fare paying passengers. Only then will they offer me and my customers sufficient insurance.

2. Do Uber drivers pay taxes on their income, especially if they have another principle form of income? I don't know the answer to that but my guess is that it is all black market cash in hand income.

3. London black cab drivers spend 3-4 years studying the knowledge and here in Dublin, my taxi licence cost 6,300 euros from the local Council. If Uber drivers do not spend such amounts or spend such time gaining their licences, is there really a level playing field? The fact I paid for my licence gives me the right to block the streets if the same people who took my money allow Uber drivers to enter the market free of charge and unregulated.

4. Would you use the services of a hairdresser or an electrician (just two examples) who are not qualified just so that you can save yourself a few quid? If the answer is yes, you deserve the service you pay for.

 

Uber are there 24 Hrs a day. Try and find a black cab after 9 pm!

 

On 1&2, I'd assume yes. It can't be cash in hand income given no cash changes hands.

3, no there's not a level playing field for the the vendor but should consumers care? You could argue black cabs particularly have had it too good for decades.

4, no, but it's really not the same thing. If I want to get from Clapham to Watford then a Prius with a sat nav will do the job just as well as the most skilled knowledge cabbie.

 

When was the last time you used the services of a hairdresser Fingy?

Post a comparison of attacks by Uber drivers vs attacks by black cab drivers vs attacks by minicab drivers. Easily got round by requiring all to be police vetted.

In the UK Uber drivers are required to have commercial hire licences and insurance (costs around £4K a year) and Uber has back up insurance. Of course some may cheat, just like the 3 blokes recently caught driving black cabs in London with fake documents.

Tax - income is transparent via the app, much more so than via cash payments. If the authorities want to check it is easy to do so. Of course I am sure that all licensed cab drivers declare all their income, especially the tips.

The knowledge - who the **** cares, it's just a myth built up into something it isn't. As I said above, if it's so brilliant why don't they market it better?

Cost of your licence - simple to fix, charge it to all drivers.

You 'I'll block the streets' threat is childish. They are not your streets to block. The London cabbies have lost a lot of public sympathy through their thuggish responses so far. 120,000 signatures on a pro Uber petition, I heard today.

Hair dressers and electricians. Scraping the barrel mate.

Instead of all this vitriol and threats why not just argue with the authorities to level the playing field?
- police checks
- equal licence fee
- equal regulation re insurance etc

Then compete on price, convenience and reputation. Who knows, Uber and their kind may not be able to survive.

 

As an alternative to taxis you could always become a professional footballer and get your mum to drive you around.

 

So, in your eyes no cash changes hands. Fair enough. So, when you pay by your card, who receives the payment? Uber charge your card, they deduct their commission on the job and pay the balance electronically direct into the drivers bank account. The driver does not operate a free service. He is doing it for reward. Uber may or may not pass on details of payments they make to the Revenue for tax purposes.

Should the consumer care there is no playing field? A Prius with a sat nav will do the job as well as a cabbie with the knowledge? Can the Prius with a sat nav get you there quicker by using bus lanes? What happens if your Prius is involved in an accident? Who do you claim off? Remember, your Uber driver is not a licenced mini cab or black cab and he couldn't possibly have sufficient insurance to carry fare paying passengers and therefore his insurance will reject any claims made on his private car insurance.

SB - I don't use hairdressers but my point is clear. Use the services of unskilled, unqualified, uninsured operators in any market and you deserve the service you pay for.

 

Why is it assumed Uber doesn't deduct tax? I don't directly pay tax but it's taken from my pay packet each month. I'd expect Uber to do that. If they don't it's wrong, but I strongly doubt most black cabs or minicabs ensure they pay tax on every fare.

Fair point on the fact the uber cab can't use bus lanes. I guess some people who value their time more may feel it's worth paying the premium to a black cab. Personally I don't especially as 95% of my uber journeys are in the early hours of the morning. I'm not bothered if they aren't insured for passengers to be honest. I've probably agreed to some terms and conditions that agree to this. All the uber drivers I've encountered have been very careful drivers and, personal preference, I consider it worth my while to not be insured if it's saving me £20+ when using uber to get home late at night.

You say you deserve the service you pay for. My experience of the uber service has been totally positive so far.

 

I am delighted Uber has been positive for you so far and I hope it stays that way.

No matter how careful the driver, it only takes another less careful driver for you to be involved in an accident. If you choose to travel uninsured with somebody who could have any sort of criminal record, that is your prerogative.

I am surprised the London mini cab and black cab drivers haven't taken more action against un-licenced Uber drivers. They will never operate over here in this fashion. We simply would not allow it.

 

I guess the problem, if you can call it that, is that there are so many unlicensed or illegally operating minicabs here that black cabs just get on with it now. I've lived in Birmingham and briefly in Manchester and never had a problem in either city jumping in a minicab I hadn't booked and bunging the bloke a fiver for what should be a fare nearer a tenner. Not as easy in London but Uber means there's no need.

 

Uber situation in Montreal:-

 

There is no vitriol from me SB. Uber do not operate over here with un-licenced drivers because the authorities here and in France and probably other places choose not to let them. It is not my decision. If the UK authorities wish to allow them, that is their prerogative. The authorities here took a substantial payment from me to allow me to enter the market. As you say, even the playing field and let any potential Uber driver pay the same amount. Will it happen? No, because they won't come up with the readies and we as a society will not allow people to transport people around unless they are police vetted. I do not have any figures to show what sort of taxi driver commits crimes against their passengers but I do know that if I want to put a vulnerable person (young or old) into the hands of a taxi driver, I would trust them far more if I thought they had been vetted before hand. That doesn't mean that they will not commit a crime doing their job but as a consumer it would give me more confidence than I would have if they were totally un-vetted.

Electricians/Hairdressers scraping the barrel? Why don't we have a complete open market place and allow everybody to operate as whatever field they choose and let everybody make a living in whatever way they can. Maybe I can be a dentist tomorrow and a plumber the day after? Maybe I can be a child carer on Monday, without being police vetted? Would that be a good idea? I could offer a cut price service which I am sure a lot of people would appreciate. Maybe I can drive a tube train the day after and reduce the fares for all the good people of London? Hopefully I won't have an accident whilst driving the tube. You have to have regulation and rules in place to try and protect people otherwise you would have a lawless society.

Equal regulation re.insurance. Maybe you can ask some insurance companies to change their policies with regards to who they insure when carrying fare paying passengers? My insurance is about 4 times greater than it would be if I was driving a private car. Insurance companies choose not to insure un-licenced drivers carrying fare paying passengers. That is right in my opinion.

Is the knowledge just a myth? London cab drivers spend 3+ years studying to pass it and are regularly voted the best taxi drivers in the world. They don't need to market themselves any better. The whole world knows they are the best taxi drivers in the world.

Thank god my threat to block the streets will never happen as I live in a society where we value who we trust.

 

$75 minimum fare for Uber X in Vancouver? I like that.

 

I think Black Cabs are so expensive the drivers don't have to work at night.

 

I wasn't going to comment any more Fingy, for fear of winding you up so much that you eat your young. But that clip doesn't endear the 'traditional' cabbies to me, at least not the Canadian ones. Bunch of luddites. Montreal cabbies look like a pile of ****, and I know from personal experience that the Toronto versions are expensive, drive old cars and specialise in having no suspension. Poor availability as well. A kick up the arse is exactly what they need. And public opinion is firmly against them.

Apparently the London cabbies are spurning Hailo because it also accepts PHV drivers. Well spurning is putting it mildly, their offices were attacked and had 'scab' daubed on the walls. They use something called Gett now, because it promises to support the cartel.