I thought this potential clash of the titans deserved its own thread. We are just 4 days away from what is probably the most anticipated clash of jumping superstars since the Kauto Star v Denman era. Saturday's Clarence House Chase at Ascot has 5 still engaged and, if all goes to plan between now and Saturday, the two most exciting chasers in training, Shishkin and Energumene, are due to clash in Royal Berkshire. According to Turftrax, there are no extremes of going expected and we should have a perfect mix of soft, good-soft in places as the forecast remains dry over the coming days: The handicapper currently has Shishkin (OR 172) just a pound ahead of Energumene (OR 171) but the bookmakers take a much clearer view of things and have Shishkin at a general 4/9 fav with Energumene at a general 9/4 (Bet365 go a standout 11/4). Last year's winner, First Flow, should ensure this is run at a true pace and it will be interesting to see what tactics they employ on Energumene. In all his 5 chases to date he has made his own running and has set a pace (even on heavy ground) which has left his rivals literally gasping for air. This was particularly impressive in the Ryanair Novice Chase at Punchestown at the end of April where he demolished Janidil (subsequent John Durkan runner-up and now rated 164) by 16 lengths. I assume they will attempt the same at Ascot and, if the 2021 winner First Flow tries to go with him, he will likely suffer the same fate as Notebook did at Gowran Park. Shishkin will, I'm sure, be ridden in behind and the crucial question for me is: can he stay close enough to Energumene, particularly if he hits a flat spot at a crucial time in the race, without coming out of his comfort zone. If they come into the home straight and Nico is still sitting motionless on Shishkin then I think it will be very difficult for Energumene to repel him. However, if Energumene has a 5 length lead and Nico is pushing away on Shishkin then he may have become uncatchable. It is a fascinating race from so many aspects, not least tactically, and Paul Townend and Nico De Boinville will have to be on their A-game, constantly assessing their opponent and, if necessary, adapting tactics to suit. This could, of course, be the first of several clashes between these 2 horses over the coming months and years and it will certainly be the biggest test either horse has faced in their respective careers. As I am not particularly emotionally attached to either horse I am trying to look at the race objectively. From a betting standpoint I think Shishkin is way too short - I could never back him at that price - and my gut feel is that, if Shishkin has a chink, it could be being taken out of his comfort zone right at the time when he can hit a bit of a flat spot. If Energumene can really power up the hill from Swinley Bottom and get a good few lengths advantage turning for home then he may be able to repel Shishkin's closing charge and hang on. I think that is what Paul Townend will try and do, and Nico will have to try and keep Shishkin close enough to reel him in without ruining his mount's chances. So who do you think will win, and why?
Two brilliant looking horses. Purely because I think Shiskin will get taken off his feet at one point during the race, I think Enurgemene will win from the front over the 2 mile trip. Could well end up teeing it up for the excellent looking Shiskin though at the other end, who will no doubt be eating up the home straight looking for another W. Let's hope both show up and can do themselves justice on the day. Should be a great race.
I know what you mean - one of the trainers stating on Thursday „we weren’t 100% happy with him blah blah blah“
Agree with Nass, I don't think it'll happen until Cheltenham and wouldn't be surprised if it didn't even happen then. But when it does, I think Shishkin wins comfortably
Ascot suits a front runner, both Flat and Jumps, but the hallmark of Shiskin, likewise Altior , is his jumping prowess and finishing burst. My gut feeling is that , if Energumene is to have any chance, he can’t afford a jumping error. If he jumps well in front, who knows? I think we’ll probably know the result on the home turn but, like Nass, they may avoid each other anyway. If it happens, I’d have to side with Shiskin. If he loses, the winner will need to be special.
I had a lovely Energumene Cheltenham Bumper AP voucher from a few years back. 33/1 no show. If he beats Shiskin on Saturday it will just reopen an old wound.
In my lifetime these long advertised 'duels' have about half the time failed to deliver. This is because either one, or both, fail to turn up or, alternatively, something comes along and beats them both (the obvious example being Imperial Commander who downed both Kauto Star and Denman in a CGC). Should it happen then I'd side with Shiskin although if WP, I say WP, Mullins had sent over his other star 2 mile chaser then I wouldn't have been anywhere near as certain. Cor blimey I red heart that one - Chancun Pour Soi, that is, not WP Mullins. Is this race though the 'Greenham' of NH Racing??? And I'm being totally serious in saying that. Merely the 'prep', 'warm up' or 'sighter' for the main event in a few weeks time. Bear that thought in mind, team.
To be honest horse racing should be ashamed of itself if it can't get this on. The two should meet here at Ascot, then at Cheltenham and thereafter at either Aintree or Punchestown. Both camps have publicly stated they are training their horses for this race and it would need a bloody good reason for either of them to pull out now. It looks like Paul Townend has some rides booked at Lingfield Friday which augurs well. If this race doesn't happen I might just agree to say "**** horse racing"
Just the one, isn't it, for E rather than WP. Lingfield (Fri - Sun) really deserves to succeed and so hope it does. I see Estacas is set for the rich Bumper on Sunday and on Saturday Mr Charlton's Umm Harair stands out . Eye-catching that Ryan Moore was booked a while ago.
Thinking about the possible Shiskin and Energumene clash, I must say I've always been tremendously impressed with how well Henderson's novices jump, both hurdlers and chasers. In fact, all of his charges. More than anything, it has to be the secret of his success in National Hunt Racing. There's no doubt about it. Jumping is the name of the game. I've watched several decent Flat horses run in novice hurdles this year and not one of them has been anywhere near. As I once said on this forum, "How did one mediocre Flat horse (Monksfield- third in Irish Cesarewich under low weight) and another terrible one, Persian War ( a useless stayer) become two of the best hurdlers of the 20th century? Simple. They were two of the best jumpers of a hurdle you’ll ever see." I just hope Energumene can jump well and put it up to Shiskin, and we may have a thrilling race. Fingers crossed it happens.
Both horses declared this morning. I feel like a child waiting for Christmas morning ........................... Pleeeeeeeease let it happen
In that case, Oddy, go and sit on the hearth and look up the chimney to see what Santa brings… An eyeful of soot, no doubt!
Betting and going update: Shishkin best price 4/6 (Boylesports) Energumene best price 15/8 (Bet365) The home straight has gone good-soft:
its great that we get a proper clash like this AWAY FROM Cheltenham! Im siding with Shiskin just because i havent seen too much of the other one, and I was impressed with how he saw out his last race.
Quite a change in the betting from when I started this thread and that 11/4 Bet365 on Energumene was indeed stand out. Just under half an hour to the off and Shishkin out to 5/6 in places and Energumene a general 5/4 shot. They could even flip-flop before the off.