Match Day Thread 2017/18 Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

As I said in my earlier post - there is a distinct difference between a racial stereotype and a racist insult. There is a semantic difference between racial and racist, even if it's only a cultural one. You can make an observation about a trait that is largely due to ethnicity without it being racist. If I say "I'm white" it's an observation based on my ethnicity - the statement contains no explicit suggestion of either superiority or inferiority unless some context lends one to it.
We have to avoid a situation where we are scared of making any statement about ethnicity, religion, gender or whatever for fear of accusations of prejudice. Context is everything.
As I said the other day in the school gender debate, equal does not mean similar. There's nothing wrong with recognising differences as long as you don't make sweeping and inaccurate assumptions based on them.

 

too right

equal of opportunity, equal treatment under the law/systems/services.

We are all civil and polite to each other and respect (not just tolerate) cultural differences/traditions

= ideal.

reality is different.

 

Barry Hearn is right, one punch from any of the fighters he mentioned would knock Ferdinand out seconds after the bell for the 1st round.

Rio Ferdinand: Retired footballer to launch pro boxing career

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/41313235

 

with respect to rio he is too tall to go into a weight category where he won't get reamed. This is once again bravado and look at me from him. We all said nice things about him and his wife, we all ignored his videos of himself training etc and lying about times etc as just bluster.

But to get in a ring and risk serious injury as a lone parent smacks of desperation for attention.

simply put i'd not put him in with a female boxer never mind a male one cos with respect he's not mcgregor and his opponent won't be a 40 something guy with beat up hands who can't punch. Edris elba did this ****e and not a small bit of notice for it. clealry mr Ferdinand wants the tv acclaim.

 

Bizarre.
I'm no fan of boxing - watching people trying to knock each other out doesn't do it for me - but I recognise that it has been seen as a way for disadvantaged people to make something of themselves. For a multi-millionaire ex-footballer to choose to get his head knocked about even more seems batshit crazy to me.

 

True. But it is improving, albeit slowly.

 

He hangs around with pro boxers like Anthony Joshua that fill his head with the crap that makes him want to get a boxing licence and turn pro and Betfair are willing to sponsor him, they'd better put their advertising on the soles of his boxing boots as that'll be it's best vantage point.

 

He's a publicity seeking moron tbf, but there's people goading him into it from inside the boxing game that will make money out of the venture, they couldn't give a toss if he gets battered.

 

Yes.

My personal view on this is people chaff against the perceived pace of change on a PERSONAL level. however on a global scale the pace of change in the face of cultural norms has be RAPID over the past 20-30 years.

My view is that compared to past history the revolutionary changes in society where for exame same sex marriage, abortion legislation, womens rights. the changed have been MASSIVE. 15 years ago i could quote a guy telling a senior manager not to hire a female "cos she'll only get pregnant, she is married with one kid"

now the manager ignored him and hired her anway and she lasted 2 years before going to raise her second child at home

now.... feminists rage against glass ceilings but they see it on a micro level whereas at a macro level there are opportunities everywhere.

same for gay marriage. unthinkable in the 1980s. yet footballers still won't admit to be gay... NOW. pace of change. some places lag some lead.

nigel owens the rugby ref proves is a non issue but personal fear for oneself if high.

Over your own lifetime i'm sure you would point out many more examples of things that were just unthinkable then that are not even thought about as odd now.

 

Matth has spoken.

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Matthew @Carrick4united·5h

"Good luck to Rio Ferdinand, He deserves to be successful, After the couple of years he's had, I hope he becomes world champion one day"

 

The changes in attitudes to race and gender issues have been profound, but the fact that a significant number of Neanderthals still cling to their old prejudices in high-profile ways tends to overshadow the progress made.
(I'm probably being prejudiced towards Neanderthals there).

On a side note, have you watched the Andrew Marr series about the early 20thC that was on recently? A total acceptance of abject poverty by government and so many privileged people, tanks being used against striking workers etc,. We had made a fair bit of progress in that area, but Thatcherism set the clock back a long way.

 

I'd imagine Ferdinand can get a bout with a young, relatively unknown but talented up and comer expected to go and win a title down the line

Both would benefit from the rub

Ferdinand will get the respect for going in with a proper fighter who will bring some credibility to the affair

The opponent will benefit from the somewhat high profile Ferdinand will have and the media interest, he'll draw that's for sure, if only it's to see him get flattened

 

15 years later it wouldn't be said, but she'd still not get the job from plenty........

 

#tolerantmod

 

probably.

He should have more sense and no need for any moeny. his kids should be the only priority. And getting beaten so you have a brain aneurysm doesn't seem the best plan for that does it.

 

true but you could not even look like you thought it now. she would not have to reveal martial status or no of kids nor should she be asked it in interview.

And in my experience there are as many women as men who discriminate like this now. theres always a dinosaur who's eventually going to retire and that but I find the women coming up are absolutely as savage as manager at times as any man.

 

I agree with all of your comment except this bit. You follow it up with a statement which I'm not sure whether or not is supposed to be an example 'I'm white'. Being white isn't a trait. Just out of interest, could you give an example of an ethnic trait?

 

As JB's an academic who has studied race and racism in depth, I can see his point. But for non academics like me and for the lay person, racism is a negative attitude that needs to be reduced (as eradication is surely an impossible objective).

I found some principles useful to follow: Something is deemed racist IF the group affected deems it derogatory or racist. So If black people hearing that Lukaku song feels it is derogatory to them, then it is racist. It is not up to white or other peoples to say it is not. If black people do not deem that song derogatory or racist then it is not racist.

Same with a statement, phrase or joke to an individual: If the recipient is offended and deems it racist then it is. If like Saint said, he is not offended by the joke or the phrase then it is not deemed racist.

It is always the recipient that decides not the "donor (s)". That's why sensitivity is called for.

 

This then slips into a slippery slope. What happens if someone else hears this and is offended on behalf (whether they are the same race or not) when you are using said stereotypes/jokes/banter/racism etc with your mate who isn't offended. At the moment this could get you into a lot of trouble

 

Is saw finger deemed racist?

To me it's just a piss take out the way a comment is worded ie not said properly.