Abu Dhabi GP Chat & Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Big Ern, Nov 27, 2019.

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Who will win the final GP

Poll closed Nov 30, 2019.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    70.0%
  2. Valtieri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Max Verstappen

    10.0%
  4. Charles Le Clerc

    10.0%
  5. Sebastian Vettel

    10.0%
  6. Alexander Albon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Abou Diaby

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. A N Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Just watching Lando on the Sky pad. It's great to get such honest insight.
     
    #61
  2. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    The clc fuel issue is getting more interesting. FIA took clc car back to garage and had tank emptied. And will have tank brimmed to check capacity. Twist being, did the miss report breach technical directive or a technical rule. If its directive then no disqualification.
    Also as this was random check does that mean ferrari routinely miss report fuel level and that ties in with them somehow bypassing fuel flow readings?
    All interesting, I guess this won't be resolved very quickly. Maybe it will just result in more clarifications?
     
    #62
  3. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Here's a personal opinion, based on little more than gut instinct - which may be unfair:

    I believe Ferrari has been chancing its arm with fuel irregularities/discrepancies of one sort or another for much longer than the emergence of Red Bull's recent objections. I also believe it has been a calculated decision rather than oversight or accident. It may (at least partly) explain some apparent variance in top speeds and head-scratching differences in qualifying and race pace - all of which seem hinted at by data analysis*.

    Fuel capacity, flow rates and constituents are restricted for a very good reason: circumventing any of them is a primary short-cut to more power.

    Gut instinct. No facts as such.

    ---o-0-o---

    *A 'smoking gun' can only hint at underlying cause, whereas hard evidence is required for proof.
     
    #63
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  4. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    My instinct is they're all innocent until they finally get caught, because they all try and find that 'competitive edge' it's just a question of the scrutineers looking hard enough in the right place.
     
    #64
  5. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    I do love the engineering side of F1 and how they interpret the rules and try and find holes in them.

    I was also impressed with VW and their emissions that caused the scandal. To me the rules stated their engines had to pass a lab test, so the engineers worked out that if the ecu detected the test being run it would use a lower emission map. To me they didn't break the rules, the rules that were written were not what the authorities intended!

    I love F1 teams pushing the rules, it's a game of cat and mouse. I just wish more technical details came out.
     
    #65
  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Found
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    It all seems weird that Mercedes is still miles ahead of everyone yet nobody has found the answer for. I'm sure they do some dodgy things now and then. But as above, legal until found.
     
    #66
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  7. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Ferrari's punishment for a disqualification offence is a €50,000 fine. Classic.
     
    #67
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  8. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    But it was only a Technical Directive procedure they breached, so I don't think a disqualification was possible as it wasn't a technical rule. I guess the 4.88kg extra didn't push them over the 100kg max in the tech rules.
    It does beg the question why the under declaration? As long as it's under 100kg what does it matter, unless someone in FIA is passing on fuel load to other teams? Sort of pity it was found in last race.
    I wonder if FIA had ever checked declared vs actual at any other time this season on the Ferrari?
     
    #68
  9. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    yes .

    That will really teach them <doh>

    And deter others ...
     
    #69
  10. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Just thought, if that's all they get for breaching a Technical Directive then all the recent ones about fuel flow, burning lubricants etc aren't really enforceable are they? Any breaches just get a fine!!!
    It sort of nullifies the purpose of Technical Directives. Oh of course they can't add any Technical Directives to the rules as Ferrari has and will have it's veto to use both now and after 2021!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #70

  11. Mr.B

    Mr.B Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm kinda torn on this.

    I love technology and engineering and human ingenuity & invention & craftsmanship.

    But I hate cheating.

    So in F1 I see things that I love being exploited to achieve something I hate.

    My hatred of cheating outweighs the other stuff, but then I reflect that some great innovations have come from attempts to stretch the rules beyond their limits.

    I'm sure they'd all do it if they had the resources. That's one reason to rein in the budgets and distribute the money more fairly.

    With roughly equal budgets for everyone they'd each have to decide how much to spend 'safely' on building a compliant car vs how much to 'gamble' on trying to find an unfair advantage.

    I wonder what history tells us about the apparent worst offenders for cheating? My gut feel is that the worst offenders are the richer teams. Although maybe the back-markers just attract less scrutiny. If 2019 Williams was found to be the biggest cheat, would people find it scandalous or hilarious? :grin:
     
    #71
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  12. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    The decision was probably the hard bit, now it is made he and she can focus on their individual futures. The crap was probably the lead up to this moment.
     
    #72
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  13. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    It's a fine balance between exploiting a rule and actually breaking the rule. I think all teams would/do bend the rules and as you say maybe the best funded teams are the worst offenders.
    Hopefully by 2023 the budget caps will work but I think it will take till then to really kick in.
     
    #73
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  14. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Now, was it Eddie Squidd who could not cope with Nigel resurrecting from the past? Does anyone else think CLC has the eyes, perhaps more the eyebrows of Nigel, just catching him putting his cap on after the race and the thought crossed my mind.

    Well done Lewis and also Verstappen today. Well do to all the young blood.
     
    #74
  15. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Charles Mansell sounds a little bit intimidating <yikes> <laugh>
     
    #75
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  16. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but in some cases what the little teams do to try and stay competitive can also go unnoticed for a long time, and that is just for the midfield.

    As you say, there is a fine line between breaking the spirit of the rule, breaching a directive, breaching a regulation and down right cheating.

    It all seems to be naughty schoolboy stuff when they get caught.
     
    #76
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  17. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

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    I’m not against our Nige or his eyebrows, just his light entertainment career!
     
    #77
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  18. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Anyone know if clc ran with the extra 5kg of fuel or not?
     
    #78
  19. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking that!

    Surely Ferrari have been playing tricks with their PU performance this season. It was oil burning a couple of years back, has it been extra fuel this year?
     
    #79
  20. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    So somehow Renault finished out of the points today? A rotten year for them and for Dan Ricciardo.

    Pat Fry has joined them having done an excellent job in unpicking some of the McLaren issues of 2018 and improving their 2019 package.

    He has a similar task on his hands with Renault. Will their PU ever get on par with the rest? Even Hamilton had a dig prior to the race today, claiming Ferrari and Honda power were basically the same but intriguingly left Renault out of that comment!

    Cyril is very fortunate to be in a job still.
     
    #80

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