Carrow park?

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by General Melchett, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I generally wouldn't bother reopening a well trodden debate about redevelopment of CR vs out of CIty retail park, but an interesting alternative brought up in this article.
    For me whilst the redevelopment of the City stand and remaining at Carrow road is the first choice option, that is beset by capacity problems during any attempt to redevelope.
    So I like the idea of a new stadium purpose built on the old colman's site particularly if some thought is given to optimising atmosphere, safe standing and basically future proofing the club. Any land costs for the new site could be recouped with the sale of the existing prime land for yet more flats.
    Chief concern long trm though is to not place too heavier burden on club finances to adversely effect the team for years to come.

    Bah!
     
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  2. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I think the point about safe-standing raises an interesting conundrum.

    Safe standing advocates suggest 1.8 standing fans for 1 seated fan. Should safe standing therefore become legal, Carrow Road could increase to around 35,000 capacity through the conversion of 9000 seats to safe standing areas, I'm not sure what the capacity of the lower Barclay and N&P is combined, but I'm not sure we'd be all that far away.

    The club could at this point commit to an expensive, multi-year construction of a new stadium, or a logistically tricky rebuild of the Geoffrey Watling - but then find that a change in legislation within the next few years removes the need to move, or makes the design of the new stand/stadium sub-optimal.
     
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  3. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    Interesting Idea. I'm not sure the demand would be there for 16000+ standing, but it could certainly be done progressively. Start with the lower Barclay section B-E if the feedback suggests that would be desired (They all stand in those areas most of the game anyway, keep A for the younguns and olduns who want the atmosphere of the Barclay but can't stand or see whilst standing for the whole game.

    Bah!
     
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  4. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Yeah for sure, there'd be no need to do it all, and the club could survey season ticket holders and members to decide the appropriate number. I think 35,000 is realistically the upper limit of the capacity the club needs, so even converting a few thousand would go a long way to delivering a suitable capacity.
     
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  5. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I'd prefer to stand. It's a totally different experience IMO.
     
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  6. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to be able to stand, sadly no longer an option for me :(
     
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  7. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    When I can, I get tickets in the lower Barclay so have been standing for plenty of my more recent games.

    Bah!
     
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  8. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the independent feasibility study commissioned by the club some years ago conclude that 32,000 was the maximum sustainable expansion? That took into account various projected population increases. Unless the current projections are vastly different, I'm inclined to think that figure of 32k is still the realistic maximum.
     
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  9. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    There has been some huge housebuilding projects in the last free years (with more planned) within 10 miles of Norwich. Norwich Research Park (which includes UEA) has expanded massively in the last few years, as has the University of Arts and this led to an increased population.
    A disused Norwich Union/Aviva building in St Stephens is being converted into Student Flats and another one has also been converted into luxury flats. I think the projected population and crowd size could be nearer 40K - especially if we can maintain our PL Status for a few seasons and at the same time, play the attacking football that was so evident last season.
     
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  10. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I like sitting, I only get up for pies piss breaks and goals
     
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  11. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    To disagree with JM Fan, I think this is accurate, yes. Whilst we'd regularly have games where we could fill 35,000 (particularly games with a large away following), 32,000 would reliably be filled to 90%+ capacity, which should maintain the atmosphere. I don't know whether that's calculated based on the current season ticket waiting list and number of people who want casual tickets each week? You'd imagine if we get more people capable of making the odd game, we'd soon find we had more people wanting season tickets.

    35,000 is an upper limit on what we'd be likely to want/need for the foreseeable future, that's why I used the figure to show that safe standing would allow us to get close to that figure very easily.
     
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  12. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    The feasibility study that came up with the figure of 32,000 factored in expansion of the Norwich area population, together with the likely changes to the area's economic profile. As well as counting heads, you have to weigh the size of pocket and the likelihood of priority being attached to significant outlay on attending matches. The scale of increase you suggest would require the study's projections to have involved sizeable underestimations in both population increase and spending patterns. The club would need to commission a thorough review of the original study's conclusions before committing to anything above 32,000.
     
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  13. Bure budgie

    Bure budgie Well-Known Member

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    I remember Cov City going down this road.
    Looks good on paper, but !!!
     
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  14. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    How many people are on the waiting list for a season ticket? I would have thought we could sell nearly 30,000 season tickets?
     
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  15. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    I take your point Robbie, but I don't know if you actually live in or near Norwich. Whilst I know there are areas of deprivation and people trying to eke out an existence, there seems to be a much higher proportion of the local population that have quite a large amount of disposeable income , some of which could be spent on attending NCFC games.
    I was talking to a friend yesterday and ALL of the 'VIP Away Days' (upwards of £200 per person!!!) are sold out for the season!! <yikes>
     
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  16. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Demand is probably high for the coming season, but it wasn't coming off the back of 17-18. In April 2018 there were 2000 season tickets available without the need to be on a waiting list.

    It only takes a couple of seasons in the Championship for current supply to equal demand.
     
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  17. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Fair comment DH, but I would temper that with the fact that MOST fans felt the football was dire during a lot of that season. I could see glimpses of what the team was trying to do and if only you could replace Murphy and find a player who could convert the majority of chances on offer - I therefore opted to get an ST before the 18/19 season started. Little did I know that thanks to some smart (and cheap) recruitment, BOTH my prayers would be answered!!
    As long as we can play entertaining and attacking football, I think there will be a waiting list for STs, regardless of which division we find ourselves.

    Edit - IMO, we'll have a MINIMUM of 3 seasons in the PL. :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
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  18. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I generally agree with RBB, currently we have ~22000 season ticket holders. At most a 2000 waiting list. So where do the other season ticket holders come from? A sustained period of success, a couple more thousand maybe. Still leaves lots of seats to fill.
    But what of us casual attendees, I'd come a lot more offen if it was possible to get 3 seats together regularly. How many like me are there? How many like me would be those upgrading to a season ticket?
    32000 seems right to me, but with a good expansion plan to as painlessly as possible increase to 35000 would be sensible too.

    Bah!
     
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  19. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I think that highlights the issue even further - one poor season means our stadium already looks about the right size. Had 18-19 resulted in a mid-table finish, even with improved football, numbers would probably have slipped further.

    As a fanbase, we've been incredibly fortunate with how chaotic our past 11 seasons have been - Relegated, Promoted, Promoted, Prem, Prem, Prem-Relegated, Promoted, Relegated,Mid-table, Mid-table, Promoted. It's been amazing to follow. But if you look at the spell before that, 95-08, we only had one promotion, one play-off run, and one Premier League season. You look at the current championship, and Derby, Leeds, Forest, Birmingham, Wednesday, Reading and Brentford are all clubs of a similar size currently on 5+ consecutive seasons in the league - we're the exception not the norm. The discussion of stadium expansion and attendances is framed by our club being on an incredible, but highly unusual spell of interesting fortunes.
     
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  20. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    Another way to look at these things is that we survive one season in the PL, with Godfrey, Arrons and Lewis excelling and then next summer we rake in £80m for the 3 of them, Weber works his magic and either has Heise or other replacements at of ready to join the club. Hehe presto with PL money too, we not only have expansion money but a good side that will be ready again for the following season.

    Bah!
     
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