Do you still have faith in Poch ?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Hoddle Is A God, Oct 20, 2019.

?

Do you still have faith in Poch?

Poll closed Nov 3, 2019.
  1. Yes

    63.3%
  2. No

    36.7%
  1. Hoddle Is A God

    Hoddle Is A God Box Office

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    No sitting on the fence.

    Yes or no.

    I've put a 14day deadline on this poll, and I've allowed posters to change their minds.
     
    #1
  2. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Is he a DJ playing Northern Soul ??

    < I'll get my coat >
     
    #2
  3. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard it's SPURS

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    Unfortunately no.

    Massively respect everything he's done but I think he’s run his course. Feels like he’s out of ideas as shown by his constant selection and formation changes, he seems to be blaming a lot of things and bemoaning stuff too and I do believe he’s lost the dressing room.

    The five year project is over and instead of looking to reach the next level we’re seemingly regressing - and quite badly too.
     
    #3
  4. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    To answer the question in isolation to the other factors which I believe are hindering Poch...I would have to say No

    I've seen nothing in any game to suggest any improvement whatsoever...who has? Absolutely zero improvement and seemingly no attempt to change anything...I've not seen any bravery or backbone from Poch

    I think he has earned more time though...I'm not at the sack him stage but if results don't change, nature will take it's course
     
    #4
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  5. Billy The Yid

    Billy The Yid Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    But I`ve lost faith in 5 or 6 players, and lost faith in Levy / Enic long ago.
     
    #5
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  6. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    Player power is the problem.
    Many of you said it doesn't happen at Spurs - they're loyal and they're not bothered about big wages etc.
    Their heads won't be turned and they won't strop about if they don't get their own way.
    But it's no different at Spurs than elsewhere.
    The reality is that some see the grass being greener elsewhere and want to move on.
    Their continued presence at the club in those circumstances is disruptive.
    The dissenting players need shipping out and replacing with top quality alternatives ASAP - that's a huge task, but Poch is better equipped to do it than any other potential manager. Should he want to.
     
    #6
  7. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Can he turn it round?

    Sure he can. He slung out about 10 under-performers in the summer of 2015. He was brave and got respect from the remaining players and turned it around.

    Will he turn it around this time?

    Currently, the signs aren't good. Repeatedly picking Rose and Aurier, dropping Ndombele, jumping from Lamela to Moura and Sonny to Dele, the wretched diamond and 3 ATB, gives no structure or pattern of play and has resulted in a team with no belief in itself or the coach. If this keeps up, he's gone and he'll have nobody else to blame.

    It's time to get the youngsters in - Foyth, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Ndombele and Parrott and stop picking Rose, Aurier, Dier and Wanyama. I don't even want to see them on the bench. They're the past and it's time to move forward...at pace, with some balls.

    I've voted 'Yes', as much in hope as expectation but will staunchly back him and the team in the stadium.
     
    #7
  8. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    We are 7th. Prior to Levy/ENIC that would have been better than normal.
     
    #8
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  9. KingHotspur

    KingHotspur Well-Known Member

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    No, this slump has been going for too long. He’s not the main person at fault for it but unfortunately the manager is usually the one that pays the price.
     
    #9
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  10. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    2 years ago we were talking about when the trophies come. Today we are scratching our heads at almost a year of relegation form in the league. 2 years ago we were lauding the best defence in the land and in what seems like an overnight transformation they have become a laughing stock

    A few seasons prior to winning the 61 double we were sat at the foot of the old 1st division. Lesta were on their way to relegation then went on a 7 game winning streak to avoid relegation. They carried that form onto the new season and bagged the League

    Football waits for no man...make the most of your powers or you will miss your chance.

    We never learn this winning lessons always pinning our hopes on the footballing God's to do us our good turn because we deserve it

    Im not sure if lessons are ever going to be taken on board judging from the same old mistakes with selections and formations as far as Poch goes.

    Still I believe Poch deserves time but the only reason I feel that is because he deserves the loyalty. He stayed with us when he had United and Madrid flirting with him so he deserves that loyalty back but I dont have confidence that his words are getting through anymore
     
    #10

  11. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Every club has a rough patch and at most people would have been demanding a new manager.
    We live in a different footballing world in the premier league.

    Keith Burkinshaw took us down, got us up, led us to a 5 nil loss at home to arsenal, a 7 nil loss away to liverpool and an epic 3 game battle to beat non league Altringham in the FA Cup in his first season back. The following season was pretty crud too.

    Then we went on to win two fa cups and the uefa cup in the next 3 years.

    No way would he get that time today.

    Pochettino deserves time in my view and so do Levy/Enic.

    This is a journey and like any journey in life it don't run smoothly.

    As a fan I will moan on here, I will take the piss on here but at the game I am always fully behind the team and manager.

    This ain't a dig at anyone...just how I see it.
     
    #11
  12. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    ENIC have had 18 years, 1 trophy

    They've had a fair bit of time tbh

    Our owner has a Net worth of over 5 Billion.

    I think I've seen ENICs hand when it comes to us.
     
    #12
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  13. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Enic took us from relegation fodder to top 5 in five years.
    They consolidated that for the next 5 before we got into the top 4.
    In the past 14 years we failed to qualify for European football just once (the ramos 2 pts in 8 games season).
    Prior to ENIC we qualified for Europe just twice in 13 years.
    Without doubt they have made mistakes (Hoddle, Santini, the treatment of Jol, AVB, some of the transfer windows, current ticket prices) but to dismiss them is a mistake imo.

    1 trophy is not a lot.
    But challenging for the title, a CL final, several semi finals and 3 losing finals suggest that we have been very close...something that was never true in the previous 15 years prior to ENIC.

    I know we won't agree so I'll leave it there.
     
    #13
  14. perrymanlegend

    perrymanlegend Well-Known Member

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    Before i give my opinion, i want to get a view on this:
    Nearly everyone who attended the Watford match agrees that the magic has disappeared and now see a team struggling to make it work, even Harry is. I saw an interview that Daniel from SpursTV did with Toby, Toby basically said that yes we're out of form but are fighting to fix it,it won't be easy but they are in it together. Does anyone agree with this or was it just to appease the masses that they are really trying and Poch still has the dressing room.
    Thoughts?
     
    #14
  15. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    As I said a few weeks ago, there certainly seems to be a split between players who appear to give a **** and players who appear to not give a ****

    Give a ****
    Dele Alli
    Harry Kane
    Erik Lamela
    Lucas Moura
    Tanguy Ndombele
    Moussa Sissoko
    Son Heung-min
    Harry Winks

    Don't give a ****
    Christian Eriksen
    Danny Rose
    Victor Wanyama

    Jury is out
    Serge Aurier
    Ben Davies*
    Eric Dier*
    Juan Foyth*
    Giovani Lo Celso*
    Davinson Sanchez
    Ryan Sessegnon*

    * = injured, so lacking data to make a call one way or another

    The problem is the players who don't give a **** are proving costly
    * Eriksen not giving a **** means our creativity is stunted
    * Rose not giving a **** means he's cost us a fair few goals already this season
    * Wanyama not giving a ****, coupled with Dier's injury/fitness issues, means we play Winks as a Jorginho-style DM and he's unreliable in this role

    The pressing issue here is why Poch isn't approaching the issue the same way he did with the Kaboul Cabal in 2014-15, the best example being how Oliver Skipp is a more natural fit for a Jorginho-style DM than Winks is, so why isn't he getting more games?
     
    #15
  16. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard it's SPURS

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    I think it’s just trying to appease.

    The reason why I think Poch has lost the dressing room is because for years the word “belief” was a key component in Poch press conferences and I think that was something he used a lot with the players. I think when Poch took over he got all the players on board to “believe in his project”, it’s why for 4/5 years we’ve had the same core of players at the club because they believed in Poch and his philosophy. Now, unfortunately I think the team has got to a stage where, after having indeed been here for a long while, they’ve yet to see any true results under the regime and so they’ve now lost that belief. They no longer feel they can win the league, or win a cup. It wouldn't surprise me if the CL final well and truly knocked the stuffing out of them, we’ve lost two finals and three semi finals with most of the same players, not forgetting two seasons of title challenges, to scraping top four, to this current state and I think they’ve just been mentally battered to the point where they feel it’s never gonna happen for them at Spurs/ at Spurs under Poch.

    It’s a gutting end in my opinion because I do really feel Poch deserved a trophy for the work he’s done but I no longer have the faith that he can turn it around.
     
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  17. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I don't really agree on Eriksen. He is playing like he always did....running a lot but useless in challenges. Wanyama not enough data. Rose I agree with. His body language is all wrong but I think the same us true of Aurier and to some extent Alderweireld and Vertonghen.
    If my life depended on us winning a game I would pick this team....
    Gazzaniga
    Foyth, Sanchez, Davies
    Sissoko, Winks, Ndombele, Sessegnon
    Dele, Son, Kane
    Subs
    Vorm, Walker-Peters, Dier, Skipp, Lo Celso, Lucas, Eriksen
     
    #17
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Right on cue...

     
    #18
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  19. Spurf

    Spurf Smile!
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  20. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    One thing that stood out from Dan KP's r/coys AMA was when he mentioned that Poch prefers a midfield of Ndombele, Sissoko and Winks - yet surely the optimal midfield trio includes two of them, not all three?

    Adding a DM to the mix would unlock the midfield's potential, not least because there's numerous combinations of Ndombele, Winks, Sissoko and Lo Celso that could be deployed depending on the opposition, for example if a team is going to park the bus any two of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Winks would have us playing on the front foot, while for more physical opponents an Ndombele/Sissoko pairing would be a match

    Considering our best football under Poch required somebody to roll the ball to Dembele to bulldoze through midfield, what we need is a pairing that can either roll the ball onto Ndombele to do likewise or for Lo Celso to jink his way through, while at the moment we seem to be rolling the ball to Sissoko to bulldoze through and having Ndombele sit back and look for through balls, which is what Winks would be better served doing if he weren't in the Jorginho role
     
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