I know, the past is the past, and we have to let go. Farke is gone, and Smith is here. But I am not looking forward to this new season at all. If Farke was still here, I'd feel confident that he would be developing Tzolis instead of discarding him, that Pukki would definitely be staying because he enjoys playing in a team set up in the way that Farke sets it up, that our young players would have real, meaningful development rather than being thrown on the pitch with twenty minutes to go in an attempt to make their manager look progressive, that we would be continuing to play the kind of attractive football that we have played over the last four years, that we would have a plan and a vision rather than making it up as we go along, and that the wonderful roller-coaster of the last few seasons wasn't over. I'm convinced that the future is Championship mediocrity at best. Eventually we will fire Smith, but by then he will have dragged us down to his level, parachute payments will have gone, and we will have a bog standard Championship club. I wish we had a manager with vision, someone like Calderon, who had a poor first season, like Farke, but had a vision of how he wanted his club to play and reaped the reward of that vision in his second season. Instead of the dull, uninspired, random, shapeless 'pragmatism' that we saw in nearly all of Smith's 27 games last season. (Cue eulogies of how Smith turned Brentford into the Barcelona of the Championship, but somehow managed to finish mid-table in each of his three seasons there. Yet contrived to make the play-offs before he arrived and after he left, but never while he was there.) I guess these things go in cycles, but I hate the fact that we are throwing everything away by putting our trust in someone who hasn't earned it, and doesn't deserve it. OK, so it might have been too much to ask him to turn things around and avoid relegation, but just a tiny inkling of his vision of how he wanted the team to play rather than keeping the same players and changing formation randomly each week might have helped. The Steve Bruce of his generation, who will always get a job because he got lucky in his first couple of posts, but will fail in all of them because basically he isn't very good. And just like Pass the Parcel, we're the poor dummy who is stuck with him. EDIT: Sorry, I wrote this when I had had too much juice .
Sorry Gozo but I’m gonna have to refer you to the first sentence of your post. I wish Buendia was still here, many people seem to forget how bad our record was without him and I personally feel he was directly responsible for a larger amount of our success than Farke. He wanted to leave and we let him after he stayed to get us promoted again. Need I remind you that it was Farke that discarded Tzolis, because he had the gall to take a penalty in a league cup game against Liverpool that we were never going to win! Farke is no better coach than Smith, in fact his resume is worse. Get behind our current manager and players and don’t judge a style of play before we have even seen it.
Have to side with Suffolk on this one. I really liked Farkeball in the Championship, but it was a disaster in the PL. Smith took over a team totally lacking in confidence after taking just 5 points from the first 10 games. The players signed by Webber and Farke struggled in the PL and Smith was left with the task of trying to survive with those players as there was no budget left for new players in January. Hayden is the sort of player we desperately needed last season and his signing is a good start to the pre-season. Would Farke have signed him? I doubt it. Smith has a lot to do this season and it's fair to compare his results with those of Farke in the second tier, but with the proviso that we no longer have Buendia, who sparkled in the Championship. I think this season will go well under Smith, but the bar is set high with the play-offs being the minimum expectation. Anything less than that will be seen as failure.
Well, it's a difference of opinion, and majority opinion is against me. But there's a limit to how many times I can say that I think Smith is the epitome of mediocrity and will drag us down to his level. Losing Tzolis because Smith doesn't even think he is Championship standard is the latest example of that. (OK, I know Farke's man-management of the penalty incident probably didn't help, but at least he played Tzolis and had started to try to develop him rather than totally blanked him.) Under Smith, our future is Sargent and Placheta and random formations. God help us. So it's best for me if I shut up and try to forget about NCFC and stop posting for a while. It only gets me angry and there's no point - even if I'm right, I can't change anything. See you either when I'm proven wrong and we are flying high in the table so I have to eat humble pie, or when I'm proven right and we're languishing in sixteenth and finally sack him, having let him ruin a season and strip the club of any footballers with technical ability. BTW, I'm not on the juice tonight.
It's a pity if you stop posting, Gozo. Your opinion is just as valid as anybody's and I for one value it. I remember feeling very dubious before our last Championship season and was rather surprised that it turned out so well. The onus is now on Smith to do the same. Whether he will remains to be seen.
No need to over react Gozo. We all have our opinions on these things and very often you find yourself in a minority but that is life. Quite clearly you do not like Smith and only time will tell whether you are right or wrong. Confession time - the records and the majority will indicate that John Bond was a good Manager for our Club - I couldn't stand him and didn't rate him. Just let it ride. If Smith turns out to be a disaster then you can say we were all wrong - if he does a good job you just say that you got it wrong No major issue.
No need to stop posting Gozo, you have just as much right as anyone to post your opinion as any of us, that’s all this is at the end of the day! I hope my reply to your post hasn’t made you feel that you shouldn’t say anything, I don’t want you to stop posting even if I don’t agree with you, a variety of opinion is what keeps the forum interesting otherwise we may as well just talk to ourselves.
To put things into perspective, in the '19-'20 premier season we accrued 21 points with Buendia in the team. In the '21-'22 season without Buendia we got 22 points. Ergo :- at premier level Buendia made no difference to our season. OK, a bit simplistic but facts are facts ( and not stats Robbie).
Thanks to all the posters who responded. Suffolk - my decision is nothing at all to do with your reply. I know I've sounded like a drama queen over the last few weeks, but I'm not that thin-skinned, I promise. Your reply just reflected what seems to be majority opinion - give Smith a chance. I understand why people are saying that. They want to believe he's good, because if he's not, we're screwed. 1950 - yes, I over-reacted. But that's because I think we have wasted a player who could be something very special. And unless Tzolis has kicked up a fuss and demanded to leave, the only reason I can see for that decision is Smith stating that he will not play him, even in the Championship. That is putting a lot of faith in a manager who has achieved nothing at all for us so far. 17 points over 27 games would be approximately 24 or 25 over the season. Plus he only played Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal once, so averaging out the points total probably flatters him. He failed last year, as surely as Farke failed, and yet we seem to be gambling the club's entire future on what this man thinks. He really has done nothing to earn that trust. Finally, I am seriously worried that Pukki will be next out of the door. His own decision, of course. But his evaluation of Smith would be likely to be a big part of the equation. We all saw his body language at times in games last season: he was trying because he's a true professional, but he didn't enjoy pointlessly chasing those lost causes. Farke's style suited him perfectly; what we've seen of Smith's style so far doesn't. (This is assuming Smith has a style; up to now we've seen a lucky dip approach: the polite word to describe this lack of vision, I believe, is 'pragmatic'.) And I haven't even mentioned Webber, who seems to have lost interest in his toy but not in his pay cheque each month. Yes, time will tell. But in the meantime there's no point having the same arguments again and again, so this will be my last post about Smith until either we have more evidence or something dramatic happens. And thanks again everyone.
I hesitated about pressing the 'like' button, Gozo, in case you might think I want you to stop posting about Smith. Like 1950, I feel that this forum is at its best when we disagree and have to argue our cases. I have to agree with you that there's not much difference in the PL records of Farke and Smith, but my hope, and it's only that, as you say, is that given a full pre-season and a fresh start in the Championship, we will play attractive and successful football. This is Smith's chance and I doubt there will be another one if he fails. I also agree with you about Webber who, after a great feat bringing in Pukki and Buendia, squandered a sizable budget last season by spreading it too thinly amongst too many players. It was naive to think Tzolis would be an asset to us in the PL straight away, given that Rashica had already been recruited. He may well develop into a great player once he develops his all round play, but he's not there yet, which is why he's dropped down to the U21s in the Greek national team. The Championship would be an opportunity to do but I'm not sure he has the patience for that. It could be that Smith doesn't rate him, but I have my doubts.
As this chat seemed to have moved on to Tzolis a bit more now, I have to disagree with something in your post. Webber and Farke were very clear on the Tzolis signing - he is one for the future and do not expect anything from him this season. Us as fans have of course looked at the fee and thought they were just playing things down and that he will have to play as he is probably in our top 3 most expensive signings! Having clearly stated he is one for the future, it is our fault for hoping or expecting to see more from him this season. Where I will take issue with Webber however is the sense in making such a signing in our first season. That money could have been better used in getting other signings across the table and was therefore miss spent. All very well in hindsight I guess, they would have been hoping for him to play in the cup games and maybe a few league appearances off the bench, ready to kick on this season and become a £30m player.0
All fair points, Suffolk, but that we are now considering sending Tzolis out on loan with an option to buy suggests that he is not in our long term plans. If that's the case, then, as you say, the money could have been used more wisely.
Where is the evidence that Tzolis was signed with that in mind? On the contrary, the usual criticism of the Tzolis signing is that we needed someone who could contribute straight away at PL level, rather than "one for the future", however talented, and there is no shortage of published evidence indicating that, in fact, Tzolis wasn't expected to "be an asset to us in the PL straight away". Farke made a special point early on of saying Tzolis needed to be given time, describing him as "one for the mid to longer term". Edit: Apologies! I was interrupted while writing this and failed to see that Suffolk posted in the meantime.
FWIW I agree with much of your OP. I just think that sacking Farke achieved nothing while compromising our position for 22/23. However it has happened so I suppose that we just gave to live with it. Personally I will be a bit peeved if Pukki goes as I think that he represents our best chance of a top six finish. I think that we might fall a couple of places short of that come next May.
Isn't that exactly what he did? He made 3 EPL starts, plus 1 start in the FA Cup and 2 in the Carabao Cup with, additionally, 11 appearances as a sub in the EPL.
My point about Tzolis was that buying him for the future limited our transactions in the present. We could have used the £8.8m to bring in higher quality players to improve our chances of survival. We didn't and we came nowhere near close to surviving, which should have been our absolute priority.
Had Farke still been here, I think the mood around the club would have been similar to now. "Why are we letting Farke dictate recruitment when his style has already failed twice?" And similar sentiments. Whether Farke could motivate players for a third tilt at the championship would have been a concern too, and last season's recruitment wouldn't have been viewed any more favourably. Farke managed based on strong principles of how football "should" be played, which led to a very defined, recognisable playing style. As yet, that's not as obvious with Smith which makes it harder to see what the plan is for next season. That could be because Smith's plan is so different to Farkeball that he's not been able to play it yet (quite possible with our paucity of midfield options) or because Smith is a manager more like Lambert (for example) who is less wedded to a way of playing and will change the gameplan to suit the team we're playing. That's not a wrong way to manage, but it does make judging recruitment more tricky. None of that is a reason to trust Smith, or not to miss Farke, I just think it's hard to really judge Smith at Norwich yet.
I was also sorry to see Farke go but as DH says ' he had run his race ' and his time was up. The main reasons we got promoted were Buendia and Skipp and with both of them gone and impossible to replace within our budget we were doomed before a ball was kicked in such a competitive league. When I said that at the time I was accused of being a doom merchant - which I am - but it just seemed obvious to me. Smith inherited, and still has, DF's squad and we therefore need to give him time to sort it out. For what it is worth, he says reaching for his doom merchants hat, I don'think we have a hope in hell of automatic promotion next year and the play-offs are a bit of a long shot but by the following season Smith might have got it sorted out.
Farkeball was dominant in the Championship but failed in the PL because it was so predictable, as DH suggests. PL teams had better players who could capitalise on our weak points. Smith came in and changed many of those like stopping the FBs bombing forward recklessly, always trying to play out from the back and getting the ball forward too slowly. That helped, but not enough in the end. As for this season, we're joint favourites for automatic promotion because we have a good Championship plus squad and parachute payments and other potential money to make it even better. Two quality midfielders to replace Rudd and Gilmour and some 'creative recruitment' will make us even better, if we get it right. Hayden is a great start and the new CMs will allow Smith to refocus box to box tactics well suited to this league, particularly if we keep the squad big enough to cope with injuries in an intensive 46 match season. I'm looking forward to watching Idah, Rowe, Springett, Omobamidele, Mumba and hopefully Tzolis develop further in a league where they get more opportunities. Sinani is like a new signing if he stays and Sargent, Dowell, Placheta, Hernandez will also be better players in this league. Smith also needs to make the right decisions about who stays and who goes as well. Our situation isn't perfect, but the squad we have is likely to be the envy of most other teams in this league.
