Match Day Thread Leicester v United - Cup QF Battle of the Crocks

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Treble, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Ole’s dismissing cups in public has come back to bite him. The first half set the scene. No team work, no passion, no team work ! Too many changes with Shaw, Fernandes, McTominay not playing gave the wrong message, Didn’t deserve to go through at all. Only one team wanted to win. And it was Leicester. No excuses.
     
    #21
    cytrax likes this.
  2. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    I think I’d rather see us finish a strong second and win UEFA Cup than win the FA Cup. The FA Cup is more meaningful when you complete the double. On its own, it’s more of a distraction than anything, especially when we factor in the number of games that these players now have to play in a very short period of time. You win it and pat yourself on the back as though you’ve done something right for the season - kinda like when Arsenal became king of FA Cup without making meaningful strides forward as a team.

    In short... with a League Title, FA Cup is wonderful. On its own, I honestly don’t think that the fans care and I can’t blame Ole for resting the key players.

    To the next...
     
    #22
    Christiansmith and Diego like this.
  3. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    35,414
    Likes Received:
    12,144
    Kind of agree but any cup is nice and today too many were "rested" at once.
     
    #23
  4. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    I only partially agree. I thought that with a potential semi against Southampton this was a great opportunity to get to a final and banish that semi final hoodoo.

    Having said that **** happens. The Europa is several times more important than the FA cup. With the Europa the winners get a CL place so as well as prestige there is a huge implication for the next season. Remember that LVG got sacked after winning the FA cup, shows how important it is.
     
    #24
    cytrax and Diego like this.
  5. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    29,983
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    The second half was almost as if they knew it would be City or Chelsea in the final, and that would be really tough, and so they chucked in the towel so they didn't have to bother! Was a dire performance all round.

    I am also a bit meh about the FA cup but that's more to do with the fact that the semi's and the final will now be played at an empty Wembley, which just seems ludicrous to me.

    Solskjaer has to get the monkey off his back though. United win trophies, that's what we do. It's not up to him to decide whether it's important in the grand scheme of things.

    He now needs to finish second, win the Europa league and plan for next season. If he fails at both then not sure he should even get next season, to be absolutely honest.
     
    #25
    cytrax likes this.
  6. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    29,983
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    van De Beek didn't exactly step up either, did he? Hid for most of the game and then went off almost in tears, it looks like he's a duff purchase.

    Midfield should be Pogba, McTominay and Fernandes, always.

    We definitely need a centre forward, right wing and centre half in the summer. And they need to be spending £200+ million to get those three.

    Keeper looks dodgy as well, I just don't see a keeper of the highest quality there. He couldn't do anything about the first goal but was poor on the 2nd & 3rd,.

    Either get De Gea back in and his head straight or sell both of them and try to get someone like Donnaruma in.
     
    #26
    glazerfodder likes this.
  7. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    van De Beek is a sad situation. I was really excited that we signed him. I think we destroyed him this season more than anything. He had come in expecting to get games, but he ended up rotting on the bench. He doesn’t have the mental strength to deal with that kind of snub. So ultimately we will take a loss on him. Another £40m down the drain then!

    This is why I have a major problem with simply throwing money around without a plan on how the resources will be utilized. It’s as though we buy players for the sake of buying. What is the point of that?

    Also, Amad is a solid buy for ring wing. Why are we already thinking spending millions on another right winger? Only for another £40m player to be drained of confidence? Greenwood is also a solid player than can be used on the right if he gets consistent run of games. Again, what is the strategy here? I really don’t get it. We end up wasting money and players because we have no first clue what to do with them.

    £80m on Maguire too! What a fkin joke that is. I’m okay with Maguire, but he certainly isn’t an £80m player. £40m at most!

    For me, we first need a striker first and a solid center back.

    I really hope that the new business function of Director of football at the club resolves the shtshow of the past ten years. It has been a total waste!
     
    #27
  8. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Likes Received:
    992
    I have no basis for this but for some reason I believe that VDB was not an Ole signing, it's almost as if there was some prior agreement in place and we were forced to take him. I can't believe the lad trains so badly that he could never fight for a place against Fred in particular, so I get a sense that there is some other reason that Ole doesn't like playing him.
     
    #28
  9. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Likes Received:
    992
    And I'll keep repeating this until it happens - we need three more signings and only then will we be genuine challengers.
     
    #29
  10. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    36,532
    Likes Received:
    22,013
    There's just far too much going on to think clearly about who we do or don't need.

    Slowly but surely we're going backwards. Take Fernandes out of that starting 11 and we have problems all over the pitch, that was evident yesterday.

    As things stand, for me these are the priorities -

    Is Pogba staying? If not we need to replace him.

    Another defensive midfielder, Fred is ****, nowhere near good enough to play for MUFC. He's a terrible player and has no presence whatsoever. I'd have Declan Rice over him in a heartbeat. Him and McTominay would be like having Carrick and Fletcher back together again. A CB becomes less of a priority if we get this right.

    A proper number 9, Martial is ****, nowhere near good enough to play for MUFC.

    I could say a RW but why do we have Greenwood and Diallo?

    The trouble is, I honestly don't think this is ultimately where the problems lie. I just don't think getting in a quality RW, DM and Striker is going to improve our football.

    When your defenders can't find a midfielder and your midfielders can't find a forward, your problems really do lie elsewhere. That's about tactics.
     
    #30
    cytrax likes this.

  11. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    Yep! Neither do I. And that’s painful to admit because I really think that this time next year, the team will be AS-IS today in end product like this session never even happened. We will blow hot and cold but won’t become phenomenon without strong coaching to make these players better.
     
    #31
  12. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Likes Received:
    992
    If Ole gets the players he wants in the team I am confident we will improve - look at Martial, he's a LVG signing, we can't even blame JM for that one. Give Ole a complete squad of his own players over 2-3 years and then judge him. he can't be made to pay for other arseholes misfits in the squad.
     
    #32
    Diego likes this.
  13. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    Come on Glazer. Enough with the cherry picking of who is who’s signing. You’re making it seem as though because a particular manager signs a player, it means they are not the right fit. We all know that’s not the way the game works.

    Also, you speculated that van De Beek must not be Ole’s signing. What does that even mean? There’s also Daniel James who hasn’t exactly set the place alight. My guess is that he too needs consistent development and games.

    Regardless, just because a manager signs a player doesn’t mean they are somehow made for the team. And conversely, players that are signed by someone else can still be very effective when a new management comes in. We see that across various teams in the league. Therefore, no special analysis needed there.

    The job of the manager is to ultimately deliver results regardless of who is making the signing. That’s exactly the structure that were now have in place with the Director of Football, in collaboration with the manager. But it is not the manager’s job to bring in players. It is better that way for continuity.
     
    #33
  14. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    36,532
    Likes Received:
    22,013
    He's not going at the end of this season, so let's hope Fletcher et al are identifying the problems on the pitch and already planning for the summer.

    I wouldn't give him another 2-3 seasons though.

    Bring in the players needed over the summer and give him next season. If he improves it would be ideal, who wouldn't want that, but MUFC isn't here for his benefit, he has to start delivering.

    Funny thing is, it's not even the lack of challenging for trophies. If we were playing good football and going out 3-1 I would understand it. It's the manner in which we're going out which is far more troubling.

    4 semi-finals and 1 QF and all of them were terrible performances. It doesn't show someone who's learning or improving tbh. No matter how far we get in the Europy, if we end up going out playing good football and where he's getting the best out of his players I would consider that progress believe it or not, and he would get no criticism from me.
     
    #34
    Christiansmith likes this.
  15. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,710
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    I wouldn’t argue with the premise that he has to earn his wages and that he has to improve.

    if he wins the Europa and gets 2nd or 3rd in the premiership he would have unarguably improved from last season. And that also means that to keep progressing we have to have a real title challenge. The dilemma for the executive and owners is how poorly we have done in manager recruitment. All the managers post Ferguson have failed in one or more of the important aspects such as performance, results, player recruitment or style. Any replacement would not come with a guarantee. I wanted Pochettino when Mourinho was sacked but he decided (wrongly as it proved) to stay loyal to Spurs.

    To me Ole wasn’t that desperate to go through to the FA semis and final. Why did he otherwise rest Fernandes and Shaw for that match? Would he have done that if his survival was on the line? It was a case of putting a side good enough to win but should we lose he wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. For me LVG was our worst manager despite winning the FA cup,

    It seemed like a case of choosing which of the Europa, premiership CL places and FA cup to prioritise. Ultimately we will have to wait until the end of the season to find out whether he was right.
     
    #35
    Treble likes this.
  16. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    29,983
    Likes Received:
    14,983

    He'll have already had two of those three years so I would concur with Treble, he gets another window and lives or dies by next season.

    I don't think he should be sacked after this one, but we very definitely have to show results during or after next season.

    I actual don't think he is the main problem. I think our coaching is ****. Phelan is not a coach, he is and always has and will be an assistant manger. Carrick is too inexperienced, as is Butt.

    These bloke aren't coaches just because they used to play for Manchester United and know how it should work. We need actual coaches, who can teach and develop players.

    Dan James is regularly brought up so he may as well be used as the example; he was a raw youngster bought for peanuts from a championship club.

    He has the ingredients, they need to be developed. I don't see where that's happened?

    Now, I watched him every game, in the flesh, for Swansea City before he signed for United and identified him has having the potential and willingness to learn, it was obvious.
    It's not happened, and it's clearly not all his fault as he's still doing championship level stuff. Where's the coaching here?


    As for the dead wood, there comes a point where they are not playing and their contracts should be mutually terminated, they've not done too badly out of the club. I'm thinking the likes of Jones and Rojo here, ones who still haven't actually left. Waive any fee and wave them bye bye.

    Players that need to be sold at the end of the season are Matic, Fred, Martial, Bailly or Lindelof and Henderson or De Gea. Mata should also be allowed to leave.

    Then buy a centre half, striker, right wing and develop/coach what we have
     
    #36
  17. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Likes Received:
    992
    OK then, Ole didn't sign Martial but let's keep him, he's fantastic - not. IF Martial was an Ole signing you would have a point, he isn't and should go as he doesn't fit in.
     
    #37
  18. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Likes Received:
    992
    Neither of our two keepers are world class and I doubt De Gea would hang around as a number two, the same for Henderson, so that's a problem. While I would go for Donnarumma on a free in a heartbeat, we will also need a no2 and Grant isn't it.

    Next I would go for Varane in defence and get rid of Lindelof, he is too inconsistent. In midfield I would go for Declan Rice and Haaland up front - probably £200m for a job lot.

    Now we're talking contenders.
     
    #38
    cytrax likes this.
  19. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    If we can get those players in, Ole won’t have to do much coaching at that point. lol
     
    #39
    glazerfodder likes this.
  20. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    458
    The point here is that it doesn’t matter who signed a player. It can go either way regardless of when a player comes in. And good players can became useless then become useful again. Pogba for years was a frustrating figure but he is now finally showing some promise. Shaw is another prime example.

    Here is an example of impact of bad decision from management... I always prefer Martial on the left. I like his technical capabilities to drift in. I would rather see Rashford in front but Ole gave Martial what he wanted instead of where he would be more useful for the team. In the end, both Martial and Rashford have become inconsistent due to lack of decisive leadership from the manager.
     
    #40

Share This Page