Location Argyle

Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by sensiblegreeny, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Every transfer window that has ever been there has been an argument amongst supporters about the ease or difficulty in signing players getting them to come to this football outpost. The theory is they have homes up north or further south and if they are to come we are definately not first choice and they want more money to do it. I guess that if you want to bring your family with you then there is the removals etc to consider.

    My group were having a conversation on Tuesday over a cold beer about this very problem and what there was to be done about it. Whilst I don't personally think it is a big consideration a lot of the time I can see there is some merit in the argument of other clubs having a bigger choice. If you are in and around an area with a load of other clubs then moving isn't a consideration. Those clubs can pick and choose a lot more than we can so what is the answer to this. The idea was floated that Argyle play home matches at Home Park as per normal. However, why do they have to train there? Why can't Argyle buy a plot of land somewhere in a footballing heartland and train the players in that location all week. You then have a situation that players who live in the vicinity can stay there and only have to travel to Plymouth every other week. Away matches are much closer in the main so it cuts out a whole load of travel from home to work. All we have currently as a training ground is Harpers Park and that is very basic indeed.

    There are a number of areas that could fit the bill but somewhere in the Midlands might be the best answer. Central to the country if you like. The financial side would pay for itself in time with less costs for signing players and a better choice or player. You get the drift so what do you think? Lyndhurst you can put the suggestion forward if you like at no charge.............
     
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  2. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I should have added that Youth set up can continue at Home Park and Harpers Park would not be wasted. To be fair we don't get hundreds of players from this region anyway.
     
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  3. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Increases rather than decreases the amount of time the players spend travelling doesn't it? There's no such thing as a home game then.

    Where would you go? Birmingham? OK for some but no great benefit if your family are in Scotland or Norfolk. Still no prospect of daily commuting.

    And it's unfair to players who are unmarried or do relocate their families.

    Sent from my mobile phone - E&OE
     
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  4. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I think you have missed just about every part of my point there notdistant. Of course you can't get near to the origins of every player irrespective of where they are from. My point is that we fail to compete with clubs say in and around Lancashire and Yorkshire because there are a load of clubs there for players to choose from. The travelling distance from one club to another is not that great in this day and age unlike from Devon. I acknowledged half the games were at home and therefore they would have to travel. But, how far from outside Manchester to Sunderland for example than from here. How far to Half the other teams in the league. Now how far is it from Devon? Single people also set up home even if it isn't with a family in tow. Don't see as it makes a difference to them where that is so being away from the club's natural home matters not a jot. Not having to move from it is the same for them as a family man so gives them more scope when they move on and less disruption just the same as the married contingent. Travelling to Plymouth for a game 23 times a year is still less time away for most of them. The complaint that people won't come this far outside the norm would no longer be relevant. We don't see them train now so no difference for supporters. I still maintain it has it's merits.

    Now give me a few arguments why they have to train here all week and the difference not doing so makes to any of us.
     
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  5. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Umm I got all your points I think Sensible.

    The first limitation is that all the squad have to train together. No manager is going to accept otherwise.

    The second is that travelling long distances in coaches is bad for footballers' legs. In an ideal world, they'd stay overnight before away games and fly to the distant games. I was astonished the other day to hear that one of the Liverpool or Manchester clubs (forget which) had flown to a London game. Hardly long distance by our standards.

    My points were that:

    No matter where you set up shop, some players would have to live away from home. It's a partial solution, not a complete one.

    If your location is central, then you'd still have some lengthy away days: Birmingham to Fleetwood for example. More importantly, you'd be doing Birmingham to Plymouth and back for EVERY home game, Tuesday nights and all. Think of their legs. And the traveling time is even more disruptive to family life.

    Then there's the cost.

    Then there's the separation of the players from the city and the fans.

    I do wonder if some players couldn't be given some leeway. We are at Southend on Saturday. Couldn't David Fox be given a 48 hour leave in Norwich and return to the club by train?

    Interesting idea but causes as many problems as it solves I think.


    Sent from my mobile phone - E&OE
     
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  6. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Home Park should be the central location of all staff and players associated with PAFC....and personally each player and their immediate families should be based only a short commute from their home stadium.

    Personally I feel that a player should show total commitment to the club who is employing him....and that goes for any that are married and have children.

    A players focus should be on his job....that is playing football for the club that is paying his wages.....and his family should be there to support him to do that.

    During my childhood my father was never separated from his wife and son....we went wherever dad was posted.....Ok when he was in Egypt and the Sudan during the 1930's a period of 6 years and 3 years he was by himself...but most of that period he was still a single man. Ok a new school every two years wasn't ideal but that was service life.....you ex-naval types might of had to do that or leave families living at the base wherever at times.....footballers being split up from there families is not conducive to good marriage relationships and a happy and contented player...who should concentrate on the job before him...playing well, in this case for PAFC.

    So that is the perfect world and Div 1 & 2 players wages might not stretch to that idea of utopia....but I still feel that that should be the aim.

    The case of Toumani Diagouraga is a good case in question.....he came to Argyle and was outstanding and was the cement our team needed.....but his family was living in Leeds....so he moved on to Fleetwood in the January window to be nearer them (plus more dosh of course)....but he was still 2 hours or so from home across the Pennines...a dodgy drive through the winter months.....and low and behold Fleetwood release him in the summer....AND he goes to Div 2 club Swindon....what the hell was that all about....nowhere near his family by my reckoning.

    Being nearer the family didn't seem to matter anymore...or dropping down a division either (surely not more wages in Div 2 ? ).

    OK we only had Diagougara for a short while and family moving was probably not top of the agenda....but stability should mean your family goes where the job is...and the club should financially help that to be achieved....ok wives or partners crying about being separated from their friends and families doesn't wash with me...being with the player should be essential in my view and is part of being married to a footballer...it's a short career at the best.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  7. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Football is a very short term affair though isn't?

    Having moved literally dozens of times as I changed jobs, I know how disruptive it is. Find a house, buy it, invest time and care into it, sell it, move into a crappy rental, then another crappy rental, find a house, rinse and repeat. And i was lucky enough to benefit from a very generous relocation scheme which, if applied to the many ins and outs in Argyle's squad, would cost a fortune.

    You can't insist on players dragging their families around like that for what maybe only a 9 month football season.
     
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  8. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    But, the object of moving training to the heart of the footballing world would be so that players didn't neccessarily have to move their families. There are a shed load of clubs in and around a smallish area up in north midlands, south lancashire/yorkshire. If located there then the players need not move their families at all. When it came to being released by PAFC then chances are they might find yet another club in that area and not have to move again. It could well entail moving the family less overall not more so dragging them about isn't the prime concern. When it comes to training at Harpers Park what exactly do supporters see of that? You aren't allowed to so there is no loss to supporters on that front. At best you might see some walking from the training ground to the changing rooms or the odd one or two in a supermarket but that's about it. It's hardly depriving anyone or making people love each other more or less.

    The Service comparisson has nothing to do with anything. All 3 services moved people about more or less often and in different ways. You couldn't take your family on a Ship so it didn't happen for the RN. Nowadays if anyone goes away for more than 6 months max then it's considered worthy of mention on the national news.

    I accept that some players have to live away from home now so that wouldn't change with the other scenario. There will always be some who do it no matter what you do. One of the arguments often put up by PAFC and supporters alike is the difficulty in attracting players to this far out region. Well if they were based in a heartland then that argument would surely be far less relevant. I am realist enough to know that Argyle are very unlikely to ever do as we were discussing. But, as an idea that could possibly work I do think it has merit. Either that or everyone should stop moaning about not being able to attract players here. If the club and supporters think it should never happen as above then that's their unwillingness to compromise in any way to change it. We are as they say where we are and stuck in the same rut forever.
     
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  9. AWAY IN BC

    AWAY IN BC Active Member

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    I was stuck in a rut once so i emigrated Bear up Sensible, i do see your point though.
     
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  10. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    That's a terrible pun BC..............it's if something gets stuck in YOUR rut you really have to worry.
     
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  11. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    If moving the players ....say to the midlands is the way ahead.....then why not do a Wimbledon/MK Dons and move lock, stock & barrel the whole of PAFC to a more central location.....lets call ourselves .......Midland Argyle.....Birmingham Argyle....Manchester Argyle....Leeds Argyle....Sheffield Argyle.......they will of course have to drop the Pilgrims bit.....but if they move to Boston in Lincolnshire they could call themselves the Pilgrims then....seeing that the Mayflower first started from there.

    They could move to the London area..... say Bromley Town for instance.....call themselves Bromley Pilgrims and only be 2 miles away from where I live and then I would see them regularly....even buy a season ticket.....<whistle>....:rolleyes:.
     
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  12. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    You are fixating on the name of the club and nobody has said move the playing elsewhere. It's the training facility we are talking about not the whole franchise. It's where players are based for the majority of the week only and whether it makes any difference to us the local supporters or not. I am merely saying it doesn't matter where they train to any of us but it might make a difference as to whether they sign for us or not in the first place. As long as they play here then it will always be Plymouth Argyle.
     
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  13. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    I know it's down to money again but perhaps could have erected four or so portacabin type apts on site or park homes somewhere. Ideal for new players with wives/girlfriends and charge them rent until they decide to move or not.
     
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  14. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I think the money this would cost could be better spent.

    Firstly in paying higher wages, money always talks

    Secondly, assisting incoming players with the costs and administration of finding new homes and schools (and no I don't mean portacabins). Jamie Ness was initially living in a caravan at Bovisand with his family. No great advert for the club is it?

    Lastly, spend money on the academy, grow your own and restrict the ability of clubs higher up the academy ladder to pinch them off you.

    Sent from my mobile phone - E&OE
     
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  15. hp_bedoboy

    hp_bedoboy Active Member

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    Maybe should have stated pre fabricated homes as some today they are very nice indeed. It was just a thought but could work out in future perhaps.
     
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  16. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    They can be... was involved with a start-up company making prefabricated homes in the factory once upon a time. High end stuff, steel modules, highly energy efficient, all electrics and plumbing included in the factory process. Erected in days, not months, irrespective of weather, by semi skilled labour.

    Way before its time though: major house builders didn't get it. Went bust eventually - well after I'd left it I must stress!

    Sent from my mobile phone - E&OE
     
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  17. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Devil's Advocat on the expenditure side. Move training facility so players don't have to move house equals much saved money on moving them and the initial expense of buying a bit of land somewhere and putting facilities on it will be repaid. You only have to buy the land once. You have to help with removals many many times. Players who don't have to move many miles possibly cost less in wages than they do now????? More saved cash equals more possibilities with players.
     
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  18. lyndhurstgreen

    lyndhurstgreen Active Member

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    It is an idea I suppose.
    It is not just the players though is it. You would have to include all the coaching staff, physios, Player liaison , media , probably the Club Secretary. So that is a dozen or so full time staff who need daily access to the team that would have to be relocated. To be honest it is difficult enough now (and creates a huge loss of productivity) being 2.5 miles away so goodness knows how it would work. Plus there is all the non football stuff that the Players do in the community(most of which doesn't get reported on) that wouldn't happen. I fear that very quickly the club would lose all identity and connection with the local population and in effect would be a midlands/northern club who travel to the SW every other Saturday to kick a bag of air about.
    It is an idea but not one that I will be taking forward.
     
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  19. lyndhurstgreen

    lyndhurstgreen Active Member

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    New players get very well looked after on the accommodation front, as do loanees
     
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  20. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I am constantly informed by the newer generation that you do not need to be anywhere near people to have contact with them. With all the electronic gadgetry there is nowadays you can conference contact everyone in the known universe at a moments notice. As for Media well they do diddly squat for Argyle mostly anyway. What players do in the Community would indeed suffer that's true. Not sure how that could be overcome but there probably is at least a halfway solution somewhere. Don't necessarily agree with the disconnection bit though. As long as they turn out in a green shirt on a Saturday at Home Park they are connected.

    Do we have coaching staff? (slight touch of sarcasm there it's true)
     
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