I was trying to get across that a lot of us have really strong feelings about the continuous mismanagement of the club in many different areas. It has had an emotional impact on many supporters. My comparison with an abusive relationship was crass. Apologies if I have offended yourself or anyone else.
It's not City fans buying their kids shirts from other clubs, it's all the plastics in Hull buying their kids other clubs shirts, or it's Aunty Joan, who has no interest in football and is just buying little Johnny whatever he said he wanted for his birthday. You keep overstating how much of an effect the league we're playing in has on attendances. It's obviously far easier to fill the ground when you're in a higher league, or just regularly winning games, but the ownership has had a far bigger impact on attendances than our league position. The last time we were in League One, under Pearson, our average attendance was 18,027. The last time we were in the Premier League, under the Allams, our average attendance was 18,062 (last season in the Championship, that was down to 9,477). As City Man so eloquently detailed above, it's the decimation of our support built up over many years, that the Allams will never be forgiven for.
I was using a post put up by GLP some time ago as an example of children' 'changing allegiance'.Aunty Joan,who used to buy them City tops,now buys them Liverpool or Man Utd,little Johnny used to ask for a city top and now asks for Chelsea or Arsenal? That's fine then,a little curious but absolutely normal.? As for League attendances that I'm 'overstating',It's impossible to draw a comparison between League 1 attendances under Adam and the Allams.The stadium has been closed this season so both of us have no possible means of estimating this year's average to date but ask yourself this,as someone who cancelled your membership because you can't go this season.Would you have done the same under Adam Pearson? Given your reasons for doing so(no football) I'd suggest you would have. I agree that the Allams have caused attendances to drop,by how much is impossible to calculate. Anyway,I've said what I've said,you disagree,that's fine.I'm sure we could continue disagreeing all day but I'll switch focus to the Match thread...3 points is today's priority for me.
Don't think it's quite as simple as 'Under Adam' v 'Under the Allams'. May 2008 meant Duffen & chums zeroed the customer database so the loyalty of fans who'd gone home and away to Rushden, Kiddy and Carlisle counted for nothing in Duffen's flawed 'everyone welcome' scheme. What a noisy place the KC was in 2007/8......and in the next few seasons there was new more 'sophisticated' brand of spectator who wanted to see 'quality' 'technique' live instead of on tv. Duffen & co incorrectly identified these people as being beneficial to the club.
Yup. Duffman simply threw those Wembley play off final tickets in the air and said ‘There you go help yourself’ . Thousands of supporters in the queues wrapped around the KC early that morning where a mixture of aged loyalty and hoards of our newly found supporters brought up on success. Losing most of them is tragic alright ..but that’s modern day football for yer and as we all know given a sniff of ‘real success’ again they’ll all soon come running back with their flasks,inflatable hands and half and half scarves...the lot.
The organic and lasting growth of support takes years of engagement and trust. Duffen then the Allams don't value that process, hence the boom and bust cycle of support.
I got my playoff ticket online in 2008. No problem. It was the cup final tickets that were difficult. I didn't qualify for the early distribution even though I'd been to the semi. I was working in Blackpool on the day I could start to buy. There were no online sales at all. I drove to the KC and got there at about 2.30. There was a queue about 100 yards long. It took till 8pm to get to the front of it! The stewards stopped people joining at about six. When I got inside the ticket off it was obvious why it was so slow. There were only six desks serving. I never regretted it.
Tbh, getting tickets for Wembley was a learning curve for all. Remember in 2008, getting there at silly o clock and being miles back in queue. Throughout the day, people in front dropping out as mates/relatives managing to get them online/by phone. Think there was about 80 tix needed in the group I was in and we wanted am all together, so by the time we got to the front around mid afternoon they needed a big bucket to put the notes in and a second steward to count up the money and check it was right. What a ball- ache. Maybe, but what a memory.
One of many story’s told. I was made aware of the first play off final online service when I got back home but like many others choose to get mine in person. Some very well known faces in that early dawn queue already swelled around 4-00am. Remember the old man once showing me photos of our well published Cup replay with Chelsea back in the sixties and those scenes reminded me of the 2008 ticket queue.
Nail on the head. I was in E6 and before promotion to the PL I was sat amongst the same people every week. There were the odd empty seats occasionally but basically it was the same crowd, all of whom I considered as City fans. The minute we got to the PL the demographics changed and it was a different set of faces nearly every week. I don't know what happened to some of the regulars but these 'new' lot didn't even cheer when we scored, a polite clap sometimes, but it obviously meant very little to them. As for cheering the team on ! No chance. One fella tapped me on the shoulder at one game and asked if I could be a bit quieter and stop standing up. So you can imagine the atmosphere after that. One stand out game for me was Stoke at home, a real six pointer relegation battle at the time. They went 2-0 up in the second half then Andy Dawson scored from a free kick with about 10 minutes to go. I was up out of my seat cheering, then looked around me and I was by myself, they'd all quietly upped and ****ed off when the second goal went in.. We lost a generation and more from the mid 70's to the mid 80's and in that time football changed beyond all recognition. you could now 'support' the team of your choice from your armchair or the pub thanks to SKY. No one had to do the hard miles anymore to call themselves a supporter, following the unfashionable wasn't fashionable. We should have gained a new generation of fans with our success which took us to the lofty heights of the Premier League just as we did during the 60's with Wagstaff and Chilton. But the club fluffed it and this was before the Allams came along. Having said that we must have gained a few extras from those days surely ?
I am actually beginning to wonder if I got them by phone! There was no way I could get to the stadium when they were on sale. I worked in Southport at the time and I was definitely in my office when I got them. They were supposed to go on sale at 9am but I read somewhere that the previous year they had come out earlier. I waited till eight o'clock and it opened! My wife was able to get two from our house as well. I remember the goal a lot better than I remember the booking process.
Just to say Support built up over many years In fact it was 6 years Not a long time really and it was tailing off in our second PL season under browny. the allams should have sold after the fa cup final. They looked at the finances and thought **** that and wasn’t going to bank roll us name change or not. While I wish they or someone would bankroll us I don’t expect it.
I'm sure there were many local people who bought season passes in the PL years who were not City fans but pimped out their passes on a game by game by basis. I know City fans who have been in the Stretford End using home passes, and I know someone in the home end at arsenal v City in 2008, and the bloke who accepted payment to use his pass, had passes for the majority of PL grounds. Part of the rotten PL scene unfortunately, people spot an opportunity and flog the pass on a game by game basis to tourists and desperate fans. That said, we do have a very fickle element locally who follow the wins whatever the sport, whatever the team, and seem to see no shame in it. Fundamental error of judgement by Duffen not backing the existing fanbase. We had 20k loyal local loud diehards by May 2008, and Duffen opened the door to people with no supporting history to dilute the atmosphere.
The prawn sandwich brigade and day trippers put paid to any chance I had of a 2008 ticket,I saw the Club were doing corporate tickets,phoned a lass called 'Becky'(surname was Churns/Churms),they had some left,phoned back the next day after arranging travel and they'd gone She gave me the phone number of a package mob called 'Keith Prowse' and I had to pick it up at Wembley....Best day of my footballing life and I'd have paid 10 times the amount!!!
That was part of the problem with the concessions during the PL and City. Seats were at a premium obviously so 'fans' were purchasing concessionary passes (childrens passes) just to save a seat for the big games then upgrading them.. There were a couple of banks of seats left empty for the majority of games in the Best Stand ( the most expensive seats) after a few complaints the club looked into them and they had all been bought by a couple of individual's who simply upgraded them for the big games and sold them on. The away tickets were the biggest mistake. Having followed City away all my life when I could, all the usual, Carlise on a Tuesday night, Southend on a Friday etc, I didn't 'qualify' for a ticket for Liverpool v City first season. Our kid who 'supports' Liverpool but had never been to Anfield did and he got two. I heard similar stories all that first season in the Prem. Loyalty over the years meant nothing to the club when it should have meant everything.
Ah Rushden. My sons first 'away' game. He was about 2 years old. I made sure he was never going to support Lestah. Though he might have felt better about that seeing as they have decent owners who encourage people to support.