People are making all manner of excuses for ETH, CR, Sancho, Greenwood, Antony, all of which were disruptive, but those issues aside, with whatever players left at his disposal, we have to ask has there been an improvement in results, and more importantly, in the time he has had, has there been a clear style of play developed. As regards last season's results, there was some improvement, but I would argue that much of that was down to the removal of CR and the expected uplift following the arrival of a dynamic and energetic manager (and the departure of RR) and, as yet, I see no firm style developing, each match is played exactly the same way, regardless of the opponents, all of it haphazard with no cohesive style and if that hasn't shown itself by now - when will it. You can still play a certain way, even if the players in the squad change . Even without CR, Pogba or Lingard, all of them disruptive influences, just as we did under Ole, the senior players seem to have hit a slump and are turning on the manager and he doesn't seem capable of getting consistent form out of any of them. We bought a striker who can't score, a keeper who can't save and Mount, who can't stand up without injuring himself. Bruno is petulant and ill-disciplined and now Martial and Rashford have gone on strike. A great deal of all that is on the manager, how he trains them, how he instils his tactics, but as has been said, once the players cross the white line it's down to their desire and pride in the shirt.. That they don't seem to give a ****, on their wages, is the worrying thing.
Same thing happened to the previous managers. What's the common denominator? The likes of Martial and Rashford, that's what. He needs to try to break the links to previous managers. Rashford needs to leave. He can go and **** off and play Fortnite on Xbox with his mate Jadon. Or rape the white girl with his other mate Mason. He's clearly got an axe to grind that his mates aren't still playing. From now, unless it can't be avoided, he needs to be picking his own team. Because the Martial's and Rashford's of this world will only get you sacked. Team, for me, should be this; Onana AWB Shaw Maguire (Martinez when fit) Reguillon Amrabat (Mainoo also used) Mount (Casemiro when fit) Fernandes Garnacho Hojlund Antony Try to get a tune out of that, and if they are still ****e then **** off out of here.
I think the point is that even if we get rid of Rashford and Sancho and Martial, the problem is that the style of football is non-existent. I don't know what the tactics are, I can't see any. It's all so fcking one dimensional. We don't play through teams. Ever! It's endless recycling of the ball. All played at 5mph. The passing, the movement on and off the ball is pedestrian. Add to that, we're easily outmuscled, our players first touch is awful, the ball literally bounces off their feet when they receive it and that allows opposition players to close them down and put them under pressure and so we either lose possession or retreat. It's just insipid and devoid of any style of play. You know, if you want the likes of Garnacho, Antony, Amrabat, Hojlund, Mainoo, Pellistri, Casemiro, Shaw NOT to slip into the same melaise and bad habits, it's not enough to get rid of the bad apples, you have to give them something to believe in. You have to give them an ethos they can get behind and see it working. And imo the manager is not doing that. Nowhere near doing it, not even close. Btw I also think it makes his position weak.
Personally, I think ETH won't survive the JR take over. I can see them going for someone like Ancelotti, proven at every level of the game, rather than master of the Dutch domestic league. When you consider how (relatively) small the outlay for a top class manager in the context of what they can achieve for the club, I say its a no-brainer. For ETH to admit that he can't get the same tune out of our team than he did at Ajax is evidence enough for me, his limitations have been exposed for everyone to see, which for me is disappointing as I was enthusiastic about his arrival. Football, though, is a results-driven business and ETH isn't delivering.
When was it that we had to play a defined 'style' of football? Look at us, we play gang bang press, we reinvented football. Absolute bollocks. Just some actual decent football will do. It's not changed that much over the years, you try to score more than your opponents. Like last Wednesday, for instance. So, what was the difference? Rashford didn't play, for a start. Martial didn't start, for another. Dalot didn't start, for yet another. So, why make those changes in the league? Utterly baffling. Just stop ****ing about with the team. In the case of Rashford, it's as if he has to. That, because they are paying him his ludicrous salary, someone somewhere is telling ETH that Rashford has to start. And what he gets in return is a bloke playing walking football. You can have as many styles as you want, but if the player walks about then it makes **** all difference. Where ten Hag is at fault is he picks these ****s in the first place. And it will be his downfall. Unless he stops picking them.
I should point out it took Fergie six years plus before United were competing for the league again. I witnessed the whole thing. ****, **** football with a team that needed a complete overhaul root and branch, then an FA Cup win, then a ECWC win, then a team that started to look like it could compete & win leagues. Took years. All playing this thing called football. No tag lines. That is what ETH is needing to replicate. Whether he gets the chance is another story. Or deserves the chance tbf, but the next manager in is just the next stooge if certain members of the squad remain.
If someone somewhere is telling him he has to pick Rashford or anyone for that matter, he should tell them where to go. If we play well as a result wtf can they say or do? Sack him? For winning. And if we're still **** and they sack him he gets a fat pay off but at least he stands by his principles. At the moment he looks weak and will end up being sacked anyway. Tell them to go fck themselves. Btw style of play is not specific. Just any cohesive football where the players look like there's a plan which brings the best out in them will do. Rather than just sending them all out to make it up as they go along, with no plan other than to probe and pass back. Our football is ****e.
Yeah, totally agree. No idea why he picks him. But the difference between last Wednesday and yesterday is there for all to see. Two or three players dragging the whole thing down into the bottom of the cess pool. They were the difference. Wednesday was great, only clown feet in goal cost us that. If we played like that every week, and went gung ho and won by the odd goal, or drew, or lost, they'd be calling it Erik ball or some other daft cliché, when a team just gets sent out to play football. We should do it, definitely. But without certain individuals in the team.
We've got Chelsea at home in 3 days. They're just as **** atm. If we can't put in a performance against them and win, then fcking hell. It goes without saying Rashford and Martial should be nowhere near the starting XI
Btw that moment yesterday when iirc Dalot chose to boot the ball instead of trusting Onana to collect it was ridiculously funny. The back 4 don't have any faith in him. Whatever can be said of De Gea, that was never tge case. They not only could rely on him, quite often they had to!
The daft thing about that is that it's Onana's shot stopping, or lack of it, that is the problem. It's not his ball playing. Fair enough he occasionally hoofs it into touch, but his errors are all failing to make a basic save, so the defenders should be able to pass to him fairly confidently.
I was listening to a couple of interviews on separate channels with Keane and Scholes. One thing they both said which kind of reflects the point I was making about the lack of any coherent strategy in our play. They said that several players either don't know their position or are too undisciplined with keeping to their position. Bruno, Martial and McTominay were singled out. Scholes in particular said of Bruno that he just goes wandering off all over the pitch. He's trying to be everywhere all the time and he's supposed to be the captain. If he was playing next to him, he'd find him frustrating because if he had the ball and went to look for him he wouldn't know where he was. He said of McTominay, you've got a new lad coming in (Mainoo), you're supposed to be supporting him in midfield, show some discipline, hold your position, but you're running off and leaving him on his own to hold the midfield. Keane said something along the lines of, they don't know where each of them are, they're all over the place so it's all disjointed. He questioned why this isn't being picked up, saying, are they not being told this, or is this how the manager wants them to play.
I find myself agreeing with every different argument in this thread. Treble, and to an extent, GF, hate the style of play. Chief is steadfast in stating that the bad apples must first go before the manager can enforce his authority over the team and how the team plays. The problem for me is that the manager has not helped himself in getting us here. To continuously play Rashford for me is just asking for it. The way that Sancho's situation came to light was really poor. That could have been better managed. Many of the transfers sanctioned by the manager are deeply questionable. Regarding how the team plays - it is not expansive enough primarily because of the lack of pressure from the flanks in the system which then concentrates every into the middle for through-ball magic. When that through-ball can't get through, then we're fked! We struggled for goals last year as well against the historical average. There is a clear problem with the system, and it didn't start this season. On a balanced view of things, I can see how a new manager could come in and quickly transform the way we play by becoming more expansive with the current players. On the other hand, we have tried so many managers, yet we always end up at this juncture, which then points to structural issues at the club - culture, decision-making, etc. I think the best hope for us is for Ratcliffe to start influencing the structural issues from the backroom to the field. If he decides that ETH is not the manager for that setup, then we have to accept that as part of the structural change that is needed for the club to move away from this perennial mediocrity. However, I would like to see how ETH performs under a new backend regime.
The bad apples have to go first, no point leaving them for the next manager to pick up, and that means cutting Rashford , Bruno and two others from the squad - action that will kill us as we don't have the available funds under FFP to replace them like for like - but what else do we do?
Cba to do a new thread, it's these Toon ****s again. Just seen the line up on Sky. Fernandes up front? With Hojlund and Rashford on the bench. I think they've got that wrong. Fernandes on the right and Amad up front?
Maybe McTominay is the actual No.9, that makes more sense. With Martinez on the bench, it's very stubborn to have Casemiro at centre half. Just play Martinez! Or Kambwala even. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Casemiro is saying he'll do it, it's cool.
Didn't notice Martinez was on the bench. So errrr what's the plan, go 3-0 down then bring him on? Makes sense.
I think Casimero would agree to play anywhere, the mind is still willing but the ability to cover has now gone. I can understand holding Martinez back because he only lasted half a game on his last attempt to come back and is probably being saved in the hope of getting a game out of him at Wembly. Bench looks better than the actual team.
I still don't get how that works for Martinez? If it's about giving him minutes, he could start him and take him off.
Can only think that for this match, Evans runs out of steam and Martinez will come on for half an hour.
