Off Topic News & Current affairs

Nope.
But then like you and the vast majority of us I'm not one of the wealthiest 1%.

 

Even for the 1% I don't see any improvement. If you've already got more money than you can spend in several lifetimes it doesn't really make any difference.A couple of million quid extra is small beer to a billionaire. Do you know that there are now 14 centibillionaires in the world now?

 

Hard right ? Really ? I wasn’t aware that the punishment for nuisance rough sleepers will be the death sentence.

 

Not yet.

 

By the way, I did say hard right. Not extreme right.

Hard right is the blurred line between the furthest right wing of the Conservative Party and Reform UK.
Extreme right is the Reclaim Party, the BNP and EDL.

The distinction is not always so clear cut though...

On 12 June 2023, Reform UK and the Reclaim Party announced a mutual co-operation agreement
for the upcoming by-elections, whereby Reform UK would stand in Mid Bedfordshire and Reclaim
would stand in Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Both parties lost all by-elections and lost their
deposits, with Dave Kent (Reform) getting the highest support at 3.7% in Selby and Ainsty.

(From Wiki)

 

RE- the PO Enquiry. A truly stomach-churning non-apology to a pregnant sub-post-mistress who was wrongly jailed on her son's birthday. Quite rightly not accepted.

 

That David Smith was pretty unconvincing.

The impression being promoted lately is that you can wipe the slate clean of all responsibility for some really serious misdeeds if you say sorry after you're caught. But you have to put some feeling into it - the apology has to be an abject and full one.

Like everybody else from the Post Office and Fujitsu who has offered an apology so far, David Smith didn't even come close to sincerity.
If he knew at the time of Seema Misra's conviction that it was based on lies, his e-mail was despicable.

 

It's amodern non-apology "Sorry for any distress caused" as opposed to "sorry for what I/we did to secure a false conviction". Careful not to admit any wrongdoing. Boils my pi55 tbh.

 

Oh ok, you mean that hard right. The thing that used to be called common sense and respect for law and order and right and wrong. I see now.

Anyway, however we each choose to describe hard right, dealing with nuisance rough sleepers is necessary.

Not all rough sleepers are a nuisance and they don’t all get drunk and piss on peoples shop fronts and on the streets, nor leave litter, empty cans of alcohol, needles etc in public places. But some do. And they need to be dealt with.

It’s perfectly sensible to have a law that allows the Police to deal with them in a way which is more modern than using a law from the 1800’s (although fining them is totally pointless of course). That is what ordinary law abiding people want. It does not make it hard right, far right, Reform right or right wing Tory right.

It just makes it correct.

How else should we deal with people that are repeatedly offered help and accommodation, but decline them because they prefer (for whatever reason) to sleep rough. And who then go on to cause a nuisance and commit criminal offences while living that chosen way ?

 

We already have laws to cover anti-social offences, committed by the homeless or anyone else.
The Police have already said they don't need extra powers in that regard.

The persecution of rough sleepers - taking away their tents and throwing those into bin lorries, or turning hoses on them, or arresting them and fining them (what a sick joke) are actions and policies designed purely to win a few more votes during an election year.
Policies proposed by politicians who enjoy hurting vulnerable folk.

Governments are supposed to serve their People.
Destitution, hopelessness, a basic inability even to keep clean and have a roof over your head and a bed to sleep in, are supposed to be things that a Government seeks to tackle by removing the evils of society (mental health problems, drug or drink or gambling addictions, domestic abuse - little things like that) which lead people to sink that low. By providing safety nets and social support adequate to prevent homelessness in the first place.

Not turn a blind eye while the number of people sleeping in shop doorways goes up year on year, then score cheap political points by 'cracking down' on thousands of people because they and their absolute poverty become an easy target when there is an election in the offing.

There are mare than enough places for people to live.
Uncounted properties stand empty, owned by Royalty or the Nobility, foreign millionaires or wealthy folk who have bought them as holiday homes.
Rough sleeping could be reduced to almost zero within one Parliamentary term if the Government of the day showed the political will.

I know it is an unfashionable old socialist viewpoint, but I have always believed that nobody in the UK in this modern era should have more than one home while there are people who have none.
And that incudes the hundreds of thousands, maybe more than a million, families who are temporarily housed by local Councils in bedsits and cheap hotels for years on end, in order that Daily Mail and Express readers do not have to witness the sight of young children sleeping in shop doorways and nuisance begging.

But all we see is inequality rising.
The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer (as has been pointed out many times by more than one of us).
Unlimited bonuses for City bankers. Unlimited profits for greedy corporations. Unlimited rent hikes by private landlords.
An ever increasing tax burden to compensate for a stagnant economy.
Ever increasing numbers of empty homes.
Ever increasing numbers of people with no home.

Criminalising people who have nothing is not how moderate, fair minded and compassionate Governments behave.
Persecution and dehumanisation of vulnerable minorities is the politics of extremism.
Making other people appear less human so it is easier to justify making them suffer is the road that leads ultimately to ethnic cleansing and genocide.
History has shown us this, time and time again. Indeed it is showing us the same thing again right now.

But every new generation of power hungry and self-righteous leaders still believe that they can exploit such age-old and failed tactics to their personal advantage. That they can get away with it.
Dividing rather than uniting.
Creating suffering rather than trying to reduce it. And then 'cracking down' when a show of strength is needed to further their own ambitions.

And of course, when political leaders dress up their divisive actions as somehow respectable and acceptable, all they do is empower and encourage bigots of every stripe.
So provoking rises in

• Anti-Semitism
• Islamophobia
• Misogyny
• Hatred of all other minorities - whether those minorities be defined by cultural differences, skin colour, sexual orientation, or any other factor.
• Xenophobia

Nothing good ever comes of these dreadful things being legitimised by the irresponsible words and actions of self-serving politicians who should know better.

 

Some of that I agree with and some of it I don’t.

But none of it answers the question I posed - what else should we do with people who are repeatedly offered help and accommodation, but decline them because they prefer (for whatever reason) to sleep rough. And who then go on to cause a nuisance and commit criminal offences while living that chosen way ?

 

I can't imagine anything worse than not having a home. The "accommodation" they are offered is pretty nightmarish by all accounts.

I realise I can't answer that question.

 

I'm pretty sure that only a very small minority of rough sleepers choose to live that way.

For every one of them there are ten (or probably more) who have been forced onto the streets by the other causes I highlighted;
Illness (mental or physical) that cost them their jobs. Unmanageable debt. Domestic violence, addictions of one kind or another, being evicted, or simply having no family or friends to offer them even scant support.

But it seems all the homeless are tarred by the brush of those few who do it as a lifestyle choice.
The same way all benefit claimants are tainted with the insinuation that they are lazy spongers, simply because a minority are.
The 'Othering' of vulnerable groups in society because of how a few individuals behave is now back in fashion.
Many now hate all Jews because of the Gaza situation. Or all Muslims because of Hamas.
The list is endless.

And that's how persecution and hatred of outsiders gets baked into a civilization.
Because divisiveness is now seen as admirable behaviour, and is mistaken for strength.
Opposition and entrenchment of hostile views is offered as the seductive solution to all discontent.
De-valuing of other human lives because of cultural differences.

 

Did you know if you don’t watch the news or read the papers you’ll be a much happier person, because very little actually affects you

 

Especially the C4 News at 7. Can't help myself though. I did wonder yesterday why the death of O.J. Simpson was such a lead story. A story maybe because he was a murderer but not a lead story.

 

Again, much of that is true as far as I am concerned and only a little bit I could disagree with, but it still doesn’t answer the point about how you can deal with the small percentage that need to be dealt with.

It’s the easiest thing to criticise and find fault with others suggestions and ideas, but much harder to try to find a solution to the problem yourself (and I mean that and the below, generally, not directed at any one person).

Don’t criticise others for trying to solve a problem that you yourself don’t know how to solve.

 

That is certainly true and in the short term will lead to less stress and more contentment.

However, while you remain blissfully unaware of what is happening around you, the world continues to change in ways which are not in your interests and by the time you raise your head out of the sand, it’s too late and the place you knew has gone forever.

Exactly what has happened in this country in the past 50 years. It has changed beyond recognition and will never go back. And it’s a far worse country now than it was 50 years ago. In virtually every aspect.

And it’s because the population has sleepwalked to that position whilst those that seek to change it have been far busier and more active.

As I’ve said before, I’m guessing that for most of us on here, we are of an age where we’ll just about be ok. But I fear very much for our children and their children.

 

Not burying my head in the sand so to speak , just don’t get involved - what are you doing to save this country , not saying your not doing anything just wondered

 

The only thing I can do as an individual - which is very, very little.

But my thoughts are not directed at individuals, which I tried to explain, more on the inertia within the electorate which has led this country to its worst state for 50 years. Repeatedly voting for the same representatives, despite knowing what they will do when they have power. We need political change. And I’m not talking about Tory v Labour. There’s no difference between the two in my opinion.

Edit - I’ve just re-read my previous post and although I repeatedly use the word ‘you’ it isn’t directed at you Smudger - it’s ‘you’ as in anyone who is happy to carry on with the same political parties swapping over every few years or so. Sorry I didn’t make that clearer.

 

There is already a solution.
The Police already have adequate powers to deal with nuisance rough sleepers.

This new legislation has nothing to do with trying to solve problems regarding rough sleepers. It is purely a political stunt in an election year to try to make the Government look tough.