Regular Season Ratings

Dom and Tyler to step in next season?...

 

Honestly, they'd have both offered more ...

 

I agree with Tom. Not sure how many Saints managers have had comfortably the third best squad (possibly higher depending on your opinion of our squad v Leeds) since the 19th century.

5/10 is exactly half way, middle of the road, bang average. That is what I’d describe Martin as this season. Not good or bad.

The amount of games where the oppo fans are saying stuff like “OMG look at their bench, they’d all walk into our first team” is the majority, so it’s not surprising we score goals late or have had some comebacks when we have far higher quality on the bench with fresh legs compared to the oppo. As Tom said I think he has been bailed out by the quality of the players and his in game decisions have cost us far more than have gained

 

I was deliberating between 4 and 5. Then I thought of Downes, KWP, THB, Brooks, Stu, Adam, Che etc and went with 4. Not terrible but poor with the resources we have.

 

I gave RM 8 because he took over a squad that had a default mode of losing and he has done well to turn that around. He hasn’t completely solved the problem because we have still lost points from winning positions.
I think he has achieved what most of us were at least expecting, a chance of promotion and those who argue that given the squad that is the least he should be getting you just need to look at Man Utd and Chelsea to see what can happen.

 

I think Martin deserves better than 5, to be honest.

I think we all underestimate (or forget?) the complete mess he walked into. A squad devoid of ideas, & confidence, where the majority wanted out.

He still had to work with the likes of Lyanco, Djenepo & Perraud into practically the last week of August, work through the majority of preseason with players who werent going to stay (JWP, Tino etc), all whilst convincing the likes of Armstrong KWP, Bednarek & Adams to knuckle down and perform here, at the same time as installing a new style of play on the players.

To be honest, with that in mind, it's impressive we even come close to top 2. I know we had the quality, but given the **** show of last summer it was always a tall order.

 

Ipswich have clearly had momentum and got off to a flyer and we were still experimenting in September and it cost us badly as we never really got back on terms with them for long.
I'm not saying that Martin is perfect, he has his flaws but honestly I thought play-offs in August and we made them with room to spare so I think he's done ok personally and i've enjoyed a lot of this season compared to the ****e of the couple before it. I feel i've been entertained but ultimately the defence has been too leaky.

 

I’m not saying I haven’t enjoyed this season, but it is also a huge “what if” season as has been discussed many times. I think Martin did well to turn the sinking ship around and restore some confidence in the squad, but would another manager have done the same as generally confidence/happiness comes with winning games and because of how much better our squad is than majority of teams I’d say a different manager could have achieved at least the same result, and quite possibly better with better in game management.

Anyway as I say I think Martin has been average when everything has been taken into account, no more no less

 

I am a Martin cynic but I gave him a 7. I think he is at the high end of average. He has made us fun to watch at times and gave us (with my help) a 25 game unbeaten run. Yet when we have struggled we have really struggled. It is a worry that when we lose 1 we tend to lose 3-4. It is a worry that we never felt secure in a lead.

 

Ross Stewart - 10 (pending hat trick in play-off finals and there by justifying his transfer fee)

 

We've got a more than decent squad for this level, but of that list, probably only KWP would be a starter for a mid-table Premier League team (which, if we do go up, is quite a scary thought). Martin clearly has his faults but I don't think you can call one win shy of 90 points "poor".

 

Downes and THB would be as well. I rated him poor because I think his impact on our points total was fairly minimal. A good manager would have at least got us much nearer to Ipswich and possibly ahead of them. We scored a lot of late goals which I put down to superior fitness and quality more than manager influence.

 

So, what you're saying is, what we do well is in spite of Martin, and not because of him? Right ...

 

Did I say that? Once he got his style of play across (which cost us a fair few points, including 2 big home games v Leicester and Ipswich) I didn't really witness him impacting any games that much from the touchline. The Leeds game at home I will give him credit for, he got it spot on that day. Huddersfield 2nd half as well. But TBF, they got relegated. His style of play I do generally support. But he was reluctant to play our most creative player in Alcaraz because he didn't fit into his system, then shipped him out on loan which made no sense at all. He also froze Charles out for no good reason which made us far too open.

87 points is a good haul but I give Martin probably 25% of the credit for that. 75% is on the players and the ****tiness of the opposition. My main point really is you could probably stick any manager from the entire EFL in as Saints manager and they'd get a similar points total to Martin.

 

I don’t usually like to comment much, but talk of Martin having no impact is ludicrous. He’s been the manager for 46 league games and in that time managed us to a 25 game unbeaten run (club record) and won 27 league games, gaining 1 point less than what got us promoted in the Championship last time around (with this season a much more competitive season). This is far from poor & he’s had an absolutely huge influence on the tactics, style of play, players & team after what was the worst seasons in the past decade & lifted the morale after it was so low. He deserves a lot more credit from many fans imho.

In terms of whether he has an impact on our points total.. the team has played a system designed by all season (whether some fans like it or not, you cannot argue we don’t have a clear system that we follow now) & that system has lead to these 27 league wins, at times playing some fantastic fluid, passing, attractive football. He has had a huge impact on our squad. I don’t think the players just pluck quality team goals out of thin air with their abundance of ‘individual quality’ or ‘superior fitness’, the goals we score are vastly team goals & a good manager drills that into the team, during training each week.

 

From what I've seen he's a good man manager but a dreadful tactician. So it averages out as poor. Just my opinion though.

 

There's some good points in there; I completely agree with you about Alcaraz/Charles, but I do think you're not giving Martin anywhere near enough credit. I don't necessarily think that you could pick any manager and they'd get similar a points total, not at all.

Not every manager is capable of turning a team bereft of morale, confidence and even future certainty around in one season, if at all. What Martin has done this season is impressive, considering the state of play last August. Like others (including yourself in that post) have said, he has his faults and we all know that, but to turn the tide around takes some doing and not every manager is capable of that. The players want to play for him and it shows; certainly (for example), Nathan Jones wouldn't have had the same impact.

 

What he did before the summer transfer window closed he deserves the most credit for. He was given a fair bit of leeway by the fans in September because of all the uncertainty of the summer. He's obviously a good man manager. And he's got his style of playing which, when it worked, was good. But his refusal to adapt during a game cost us a lot of points and it really annoyed me. So I maintain his impact on the total number of points won was minimal.

 

The thing is I think everyone agrees with Tom's points but the number he has given Martin is vexing people. It's just a number! Martin is - by his own admission - a stubborn ideologue when it comes to what happens on the pitch. That has caused us problems this year, for sure. It is yet to be seen how it fares over a longer span of time.

 

I haven't seen enough of the team to do this but given our mediocre defensive record it's interesting to see so many defenders getting 8s and 9s.