Grand Prix thread STC SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX 2023

And after all- Alonso reinstated to 3rd

Pathetic FIA.

As if circumnavigating the rules in Abu Dhabi 2021 wasn’t enough…

Joking aside though, we are two races in and I’m already totally fed up. Seems like an extension of the dull, dominant second half of last season.

I believe the FIA should open up fuel development for the PU but no hardware changes. Clearly this E-10 fuel has flipped the pecking order, we’ve frozen the engines and we’re not at relative parity.

I’m as switched off with this as I was in 2014 and 2015 when Merc had a locked in advantage due to PU rules, especially the irony of Honda not having the tokens available to recover from their disastrous original effort.

Max literally only has to turn up. That’s not sport FFS.

 

Good job by Perez I thought, controlled the race pretty much from start to end. Certainly didn’t seem like Max had half a second on him as it did through practice, to the point that I figured the driveshaft noise was code for I can’t catch him.

A long way down, but the final stint was good from Piastri, promising signs from him this weekend.

 

E- 10 fuel !!!! I didn`t know they were burning that rubbish. This is absolutely disgusting,why does F1 think they can save the planet by restricting a mere 20 cars to use inferior petrol ?? Put only the best premium fuel possible in racing cars.I wouldn`t put E-10 in my car,or even my lawn mower!!!

 

It just comes across as not knowing what that hell they are doing. Just get it right first time, and get it right consistently. This isn't too much to ask.

 

Hamilton says “even when we (Mercedes) were fast, we weren’t THIS fast” when referring to Red Bull.

Now I’m no RBR or Max fan (but acknowledge his sheer talent), but I think old Lewis forgets Bahrain 2014 when he and Rosberg battled each other and I think we’re almost 3 seconds a lap faster when they were allowed to fight and not manage the pace.

F1 drivers do have some selective memories!

 

They pulled out 20 seconds in the 10 laps straight after the restart

 

There was a lot of scrutiny of the Mercedes when they dominated, it would be appropriate to scrutinise the Red bull car. The domination is at a very high level. The RBR passes other cars like a sports car vs a family hatchback.

 

Lewis is a great driver but I think the years of competing against Bottas have made Lewis a little complacent. I think he is going to have to up his game a little to beat Russell..

 

Lewis looks to be in a tough spot mentally. Understandable I suppose with the how he lost that 8th title and the lack of opportunity to make up for it.

But still I think he could use taking a step back to appreciate quite how good his cars have been compared to any other driver in history. The fact that having the third best car two years in a row is the worst spell in his career is quite incredible really and all this negativity can't be helping his driving (or the team)

 

I think a lot gets made of Lewis’ “downturn” in form. It’s just a mental adjustment that needs to be made that takes time.

He spent 7 straight years fighting for Championships after having 7 years of race winning cars.

To lose your coveted 8th World Championship after a flagrant disregard of the rules by a race director, and then find yourself a second off the pace and in no position to fight at the front takes a massive readjustment. Russell finds it easier since he spent a couple of years at the back with Williams, so 4th and 5th with the odd podium is much more an adventure to him and he can feel positive. Lewis on the other hand it’s not so easy.

IF Mercedes ever create a race winning car again, then you will see how good Lewis is vs George.

It does look a way away at the moment though and I’m fascinated to see what concept change does for them- can they discover the tricks to performance?

 

Ted Kravitz zoning in on Lewis’ post-race comments on RBR. Interestingly, Lewis started chattering in the press when Ferraris speed appeared back in 2018 etc, and we all know that turned out to be a naughty little trick.

Kravitz:

"Are they doing something with that rear wing that not only stalls out the rear wing but stalls out the floor and other aerodynamics around the car?

"So, that will be I am sure the latest round of technical intrigue in Formula 1 when we get to the next round in Australia."

Sounds a complicated idea - any thoughts on the validity of that theory guys?

Wonder if we might get a bit of a technical protest in Melbourne or beyond?

 

That was a great battle though, can't see Sergio being allowed to do that, which is the difference between Mercs dominance & RBRs.

 

he does seem to have amnesia. he's forgetting Brazil only 2 short years ago with new engine and sailed past the entire field

 

the reality is that the red bull Honda or whatever badged engine is not the dominant factor.

other teams can develop the same concepts.

if kravitz thinks the drs being open is slightly better on a less draggy red bull than on other cars fine but in race bundle referred to a difference of 17kmph for some cars and a whole 19kmph for redbull

I sincerely doubt that's cheating wizardry. the design of the rear wing and how the air flows to it is there for every other manufacturer to see and replicate.

 

BTW I fail to see how a car rear wing opening can stall out the aero package in front of it.

it's about reduction of drag. the red bull is already far less draggy then other cars as it focuses on clean air

 

Whatever RBR are doing with that car, they're doing it way better than the others. Unfortunately it's down to the rest of the teams to get their crap together and take the fight to them. Sadly, with current development and testing restrictions and a budget cap on top... That's going to take a long time. Most likely right around the time of the next set of aero reg changes.

 

Red Bull certainly seem to have somehow found decent downforce in slow speed corners but also have low drag. How they are doing that is intriguing. I think a very large proportion is coming from the underfloor. Are they using some flexi carbon under there - I would bet they are. I haven't seen any talk of flexing measurements on the underfloor, so maybe that's they key that they have found. All the teams will have experience of laying up the carbon to allow flex in desirable directions but I think only 1 team has an aero engineer that has experience of the last ground effect rules and regs.

I do wonder if/when another team can poach one of Red Bulls senior aerodynamicists the cat will be out of the bag - did Aston get any from Red Bull?

As someone else said the other day it's akin to Brawn's double diffuser apart from that could be seen and therefore copied!

 

The cars this year do appear to produce more dirty air than last year. If i was the FIA I'd jump all over that opportunity to tweak the rules a bit and "coincidently" slow down the Red Bull.

Otherwise i guess we're pinning our hopes on the fact that RBR's development is even more restricted than the others, but with Ferrari and Mercedes needing to switch car concepts, it's hard to imagine them bouncing back quickly. They're effectively two whole years of development behind.

 

It’s disappointing that we see to have reached silly season already, where the teams claim “they can never catch up” in the hope the governing body will step in and do their work for them.

We’ve been to two tracks so far this year, both of which have been subtly modified for 2023 to slow them down. Last weekend in Jeddah, Perez pretty much matched his pole time from last year, Leclerc was two tenths slower, so for that specific circumstance there’s a relatively small swing in RedBull’s favour across a full season of development. It’s much harder to compare race speeds, but the fastest lap this year was 3 tenths slower than Leclerc’s the year before and that was a full out qualifying style effort after Max had backed off for a few laps to prep the car, whereas Leclerc and Verstappen were locked in combat for most of last year’s race.

RedBull does seem to have a very well optimised car which can keep it’s tyres in shape and do long consistent runs, but I’m not seeing many signs that it’s an outright monster with a significant fundamental pace advantage over the other cars as we’ve seen previously from Ferrari, Mercedes or Williams.

Furthermore I’d contend that Aston has made huge strides forward, far more than any other team, if Merc or Ferrari had managed that kind of improvement they’d be well in the lead this year. Ferrari touted big gains in reliability, which we’ve not seen and Merc chose to stick with their concept, which they now think is a mistake, as a consequence they are now battling for second with a very much improved Aston, who have no right to be anywhere near them at this time. Again if they were the expected difference ahead of the midfield they’d very much be in RedBull territory.

All in all this really looks to me to be more a case of their major competitors shooting themselves in the foot than some magic trick from RedBull, although I can’t imagine the FIA will notice any of that.

 

Any dominance or advantage that RBR have right now, they clearly deserve. They have built a far better machine than their opponents and it's down to everyone else to catch up.

That being said, RBR have by far the very best platform to build from, a current big advantage and a man who likely has a ton up his sleeve, so I'd be shocked if this and the next couple of years aren't a solid RBR walkover.