Team sheet Tactics & Formation

The illness to Burns and Donacien I saw first mentioned on TWTD on the news article about Coulson and Woolf starting. Brenner mentioned it during the match and then Cook confirmed it in his post match interview. You can normally find other bits of info on TWTD articles even if the headline leads you to think the story is about something else. I don't have any other magical sources for info though, just reading TWTD mainly

 

Heads up,the Fans’ Forum is presently streaming on YouTube.

We live in interesting times!

 

Really interesting event, so refreshing in what we've been used to. Everything coming out of the club feels spot on at the moment, I'm just waiting for the catch (that's what being excited when ME took over brings).

Still feel slightly uncomfortable about how ORG will make a return on their investment without eventually pulling funds out of the club at a detriment to the club. And am interested to see how Ashton behaves when the going gets a bit tough, doesn't have a great track record for keeping good relationships with the fans.

 

Good points ITFC, and in the unlikely event we make the top 2 this season, the going will get tough in the Championship.

On the fans forum, a very encouraging develpmt. Wish someone asked simple direct Q to PC.

"Will you ever play 2 up front?"

 

I get managers want to stick to their formation but in a game what happened to bringing on extra strikers? I remember plenty of times under Burley if we were looking for a winner or to salvage a draw he'd have sometimes 3 or even 4 strikers on the pitch

 

Interesting how Schwartz completely avoided using the word ‘profit’ and laboured the building a ‘thing’ idea. I get why, but fans just need to accept it’s a business and. A Passion for them whereas for us it’s just passion.

Reading between the likes on what was aid the bottom line is ME did a god job handing over to these guys when he could sold out to some right schysters and they are going at this over the long term to bios the asset presumably with a view to selling at a profit years down the line. I expect cook will get a go for the duration of his contract and funds to tweak the team, maybe in jan too…

They all seem very credible and decent men but there’s only a few ways to extract money from a football club and none of them are popular with fans unless you leave enough in the kitty to remain competitive, a la Liverpool. They made 42m last year presumably after FSG took a nice cut.. Man U made near 500…we have a lot of work to do if we’re ever to compete up there again.

 

The flat performance today and lack of creativity has reopened the formation debate again.

ive seen 442 mentioned but I’d be interested how that would work in today’s game and with the players. Remember, position and role are two separate issues.

mid you ask the wingers in the current team to sit deeper you get 4411. So it’s a question of who have we got, where do U put them on the pitch in a defensive and attacking shape for each of these two basic game situations and what role are they best assigned?

as 442 became widely rejected for its tactical limitations against more technical teams that could overload 442 by virtue of the style and formation as the game evolved over the last 20 years we’d be hard pushed to do better than we are (Fergie ditched 442 early 2000’s after a 3-2 defeat to Real Madrid as he realised he’d never conquer Europe again with it).

I’d prefer a 433 but I don’t want a high defence as we’d get killed on the counter given the players we have. Villas boas trued that at Chelsea and it failed. Do Matteo reverted to a lower defensive block and everything clicked again. I think we’re a similar mould of player in that sense and Gaia in behind has been an issue already this season…

Instead I’d favour an aggressive high press to win possesssion high and whilst the opposition is in an attacking shape not a defensive one. Then our technically gifted and quick forwards could do some damage.

if cook could sack off Edward’s we could use Fraser in an attacking midfield role, alongside Morsy and Evans or the gifted passer Tom Carrol and we could put Chaplin and Aluko around Piggot or Bonne.

cook seems unable to fit the best players into their best positions within his preferred system so I’m struggling to understand why he signed half of them….

 

I’d add to give context to my view that arsenal played 442 under wenger in 98 with one of the greatest pl teams of all time. They had petit and viera sitting deep, Dixon and winter burn ‘bombed forward’ and the peerless Marc overmars sat high on the left with parlour given licence to advance on the right and Bergkamp (a 10 in the old sense) behind Anelka. As an attacking shape that is 4231.

but interestingly that team also moves into a 433. When they played Man U and overmars tore them apart he was coming central, and parlour came deep to join the two sitters.

So formation alone is only half the answer imho.

 

The problem is.... Bonne up top alone is not enough imo.
I don't think we are creating nearly enough chances, given the tools we have at our disposal. Now is this down to formation or players just not performing to their ability/being played out of position?

If we are to continue with Cooks beloved formation then i think player changes need to happen. The defence is fine and i was pleased with how Clements played. I don't see Evans as being anywhere near creative enough and think Fraser would give you much more in that position. So i would have him with Morsy. Then the problems begin....it's the 3 behind Bonne, i think i would have Celina wide left, Aluko wide right and I would give the pig a run at number ten, i think he might be good providing flick on etc for Bonne. (I will probably be slated for that) I really like Burns but he seems to have more impact as a sub atm.

In short, i would prefer 442 or even 352 as i like 2 up top but it ain't gonna happen, so above is how i would like to see 4231 used.

 

Wow, did i really just type all that, has to be a record for me!!

 

I agree Spanish, and Evans tends to just pass sideways or backwards. And Bonne life suport from creative Celina, in form Aluko who makes things happen, and the thrusting Pig, will be a real boost for Bonne. He has faded a bit with weak deliveries. I too like Burns, he has a dash and pirate about him, and loves darting down that wing. Good to bring on the harry and upset oppo rythm.

So, as we all say, a few changes, and we might just get the best starting 11 yet!

 

The good thing is we have lots of options, some would say too many, but it seems at the moment throughout the course of the season the balance hasn't been quite right with the start of the season the full backs and CMs being too exposed and now the front players having a lack of guile and holding onto the ball for longer.

It's a shame about Norwood as I've felt he's the striker most suited to that lone role for the club and he'd add a better balance there.

I've never been a big fan of one up top and despite 442 being out of favour currently I still think with the quality we have we could make it work or a 532

 

I’m also a fan of the pig in at 10. I noticed a few weeks ago will Keane playing here for wigan effectively. It’s a second striker role these days where they are deep enough to press and help the midfield which isn’t how 10’s operated in the 90’s. Le tissier would be completely redundant these days, sadly.

I’d think our best bet would be to emulate more of Contes Chelsea after he switched to 343. It suits the particular players we have like it did for his Chelsea team.

burgess is best in a 3 man defence, wolf (or my genius idea of Harper) can be the Luiz that steps into midfield and plays from the back. Edmundson is our rock. Toto is spare.

Edward’s is actually very capable defensively and could be a wing back, or coulson of course. It’s a big debate with this system do u go with wingers that have to defend or defenders that have to attack? Thoughts??Conte had one of each in Alonso and Moses and we can emulate that.

Midfield would be great with Morsy and Fraser. But conte used two sitters in Kanye and matic although both could join the attack. Fabregas never got a game; his purely technique based game wasn’t suited to a system not based on possession football.

For us, Morsy can sit deep but if he drives forwards with the wingers we’ve still got three at the back if we’re hit on the counter, instead of the two at the moment.

Then I’d agree Aluko looks so polished and clever with the ball; playing in his team mates in a way Edward’s and Celina struggle to I’d go with him, Chaplin left because he’s a clever, hard worker with a eye for goal and Bonne up top.

remember, if you have goals from Fraser, and the two wingers you don’t need millions of goals from your striker. It’s predictable if u rely on him anyway as he’s just marked out of the game. It’s better to have them coming in from various positions to terrify the opposition. Some teams, like spain, play a false 9 with no specialist striker at all; fabregas did this for them in the euros they won because his job was to use his incredible ability at keeping possession and making assists to set up the other attackers. So I’m happy with one up top, and of course our one has goals in his boots too.

It feels like cook has bought some odd choices if he’s wedded to his system. Our bench now comprises a huge amount in transfer fees and wages…it’s the Alukos and Donaciens that are thriving…

 

If u could only sign one permanently who would u sign; Walton or Bonne?

 

I was thinking exactly the same this evening and am moving towards Walton, he seems a really solid keeper who's a 7 out of 10 on everything. Bonne has been superb and we certainly miss him in the team harassing and his pace with Pigott up top but Bonne is in the form of his life and for me it's too soon to tell if that will continue or this season/that purple patch is a one off. His goalscoring record before Ipswich isn't the best with about a goal every 4 games.

But the one think I like is the positions he takes up in the box, he's definitely a poacher. It really pees me off when lone strikers don't get in the box at every opportunity but he generally does. If we played 2 up top I'd probably lean more towards Bonne as I've said before I don't think hold up play is one of his main strengths and for me that's quite an important trait for a lone striker.

The long and short of it is though like most people I hope we sign them both

 

Oooh, tough question.

A good keeper is as important as a good striker in a successful team. My head says Walton, my heart says Bonne because he's an Ipswich lad, playing well and just oozes passion for the club...... and you just can't buy that for any sum of money.

 

I’m with SD, on balance probably Bonne,

Having said that I’ve every confidence that if we don’t identify better options in January we could sign both!

 

No brainer, sign both, and put Fraser behind Bonne!

 

How would you guys describe our tactical approach to creating goal scoring opportunities?

It seems v 1 dimensional to me, lacking in any variety of approach or passing interplay between the 4 and over reliant on crosses which are statistically a poor way to get goals.

You’d think the point of signing Fraser Celina and Chaplin would be theyre able to work really closely together to pass and move through the opposition but it just seems head down individualistic and not a team effort between the four to set one another up. Not that the divisions ‘best 10’ gets a game for us…between Fraser and Piggot we’ve got so many goals and assists they achieved last season which cook is unable to integrate into his team and we paid a lot of money for these guys in fees and/or wages.

 

Agree Bucky, it's Cooks call now. He needs to sort it out and quick. It has been blindingly obvious to us amateurs for weeks now.