Off Topic The Burly Arms

Or any day....These early shifts are ****ing me right up....

Bored of clock watching all through the wee hours.

 

Are you on 6-2 shift mate?

 

this week, and a total shock to the system, hardly slept a wink, just clock watching.

got 2 weeks 2-10 starting sunday.

 

My last boss was a complete and utter moron and I'm so thankful I changed jobs recently.

Lazy, lying, sack of ****.

 

You got sacked then, yeah?

 

You'd have to shoot your bosses Mum to get sacked in Norway, I think it's nearly impossible

 

welshie got fired, and feels bitter about it.

 

Sorry going to have to disagree on this. Without exception the best managers I’ve ever worked for have come up through the ranks. The ones that are utterly clueless are those who come straight from university and are “fast tracked” into senior positions.
IMO, when you work for large organisations managers are often over trained to create corporate clones. I remember talking to a colleague (who rose through the ranks to become a VP) a few years ago and he asked about a particular boss I was working for at the time. My comment to him was “he’s a nice guy, but if I wanted management by textbook, I would buy the textbook”

 

I didn’t say great managers can’t come through the ranks though, and I defo didn’t say that graduates on fast track programmes make better ones either.

I was merely referring to the lack of any training for young managers these days, which imo makes them far more likely to fail or to fall foul of employment law.

 

Not quite sure why you think knowing the finer details of employment laws potentially make you fail as a manager?
Most large organisations have HR functions and legal teams. I would assume even for small to medium size organisations you have access to a legal team?
Sorry mate but I’ve been managing people for as long as I can remember and have never fallen foul of employment law.

 

You’re creating another strawman, as I never said it’d make them fail, I said a lack of training means falling foul of it more likely.

As if you don’t understand what can constitute bullying, inappropriate behaviour, discrimination etc, or how to hold discip meetings etc, then you’re far more likely to make a mistake that could end with a potential tribunal claim.

But down with any form of management training or something.

 

You’re the one now making a strawman argument.
Who has said training isn’t important, although you and I might disagree on the level of training required. IMO, you can’t train someone to be a good manager, you can improve specific skills.
I just thought using employment law was a strange measure of good management. Why would that be more important than your responsibilities for health and safety, operational requirements etc.?
However, maybe you have a high turnover of staff and need to understand employment laws greater than some. It wasn’t intended as a criticism.

 

Employment law was merely an example, H&S is another one.

My original point on this thread was that young managers are often given little or nothing in the way of training, and it’s to the detriment of both the companies they work for and the development of the individuals concerned imo.

My personal understanding of employment law is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

And my original point was that IMO often the most effective managers I’ve come across have come through the ranks and TBH required very little training to manage. Not sure how you train people to show empathy, compassion, decency and morals if they don’t have those as core values.
Anyways, Need to crack on if I want to leave the office before dark!

 

I'm with Tobes on this one. People who come through the ranks can make good managers but there is often no training for them in regards to their new role and there should be, just because you were good at your old job it doesn't mean you are ready to manage others, you could be lucky and just get it right but some formal training to ensure that you are ready for the role and to highlight what is now expected of you is essential.

My first move into management went well as I had done the role on occasion already and the people around me respected me. I was then moved to a new group who didn't know me and it was a battle and I needed help. I was lucky that I got that help but some are left to figure it out themselves and they don't really know how.

 

This is bang on the money. Especially in the public sector.

A baptism of fire I had to go through and learn from.

The thing that still annoys me to this day, as I came from private industry into public. So I was very used to a pretty straightforward approach based directly on performance and numbers. I wasn't a **** about it , but you can have an honest conversation and everyone's on a level. I learned very quickly you just can't take that for granted in the public sector. I remember saying to the Head early on, this aint the real word, this is fcking madness!

 

What you’ve described is no different from any role though, of course you need time and help to settle in.
Let’s be honest a whole industry has been built selling you the idea you need a certain type of training to be a manager, which is patently bollocks. For the most part it’s a mixture of common sense and personal values. I consider your ability to manage as having a toolkit. Obviously you add to the kit as you complete the journey but you still have to at least have the basic kit to start with.

 

What you e described wouldn’t have altered by lots of management training courses. It’s a different mindset IMO.
As an example and using information Tobes has provided before, if I left my company where we have an annual R&D budget of $150m and a capital spend of $350m and moved to Tobes company as a project manager, that has a healthy profit of say £50m, then I would have to adapt. The training for the project management bit won’t change but it’s likely that Tobes company have a completely different set of CFI’s that I would need to adhere to. Training alone won’t prepare me for that change.

 

Phil the bubble has popped his clogs.

 

I think we're talking about two different things. What I'm guessing Tobes is referring to and what I'm getting at is that had I had the training about policies and procedures (which I wasn't) then I wouldn't have fallen foul to some of the ridiculous accusations some sensitive souls were making about conversations and instructions given. In the end they came to nothing but I went through an unnecessary set of experiences which led me to change my approach and make sure I didn't make those mistakes again. And btw I am someone who's come up through the ranks.

Edit: And I've known many good leaders who have had to go through the same **** and several I know been tainted by it for years.