Off Topic The "Discuss Anything Else" Thread

"We take note of the British people's decision with regret. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe and to the European unification process"


- Merkel




That second sentence- is that truly what the EU was all about? Unified Europe, one step from a 1 world government? Or does she simply refer to unity- which is a subtle but very important difference?

 

I've heard at least 3 people I know admit to voting Leave but that they didn't think it would actually happen. FFS what did they think would be the result of voting Leave??

Immigration will not change - a) we need migration to keep the economy moving - are all those folk complaining about immigrants taking our jobs now going to and start taking those jobs they've previously seen as beneath them?

Plus you can guarantee that part of the trade deal we strike with the EU will involve a clause on the free movement of citizens.

I'm still angry about the result. I'm angry that people have boosted Nigel bloody Farage's massive ego and I'm angry that I feel my daughter's future will now be poorer as a result.

I hope to god I'm wrong, but I think we're in for years of pain over this. We will be made an example of because the EU are terrified other countries will follow suit.

 

Whilst there is no doubt some fairly awful characters (with Farage top of that pile) at the head of the leave camp the snearing disregard by many remainers who see themselves as intellectually superior to those with a different view is just as vile in my view. Many remainers have shown themselves to be just as bigoted. Maybe they should take a look around outside their chattering classes to see how hard it is for some people. I work with many folk who put in a tough shift everyday for less than a tenner an hour. Nobody should be surprised by this result when approaching 85% of the wealth is held by 1% of the population. I've got 2 young kids and believe me I did think of their future when I voted out. There has got to be a better way forward.

 

Could not have put it better myself.

 

Pretty hard to lead from the bottom up though.

 

Didn't take long for this stuff to resurface.

 

As long as those decisions are made within, and consistent with, the overall aim.

 

Whether the Republicans were too bone idle to vote or not does not change the fact that to the majority of people in NI, the Union matters more than the EU. They will not quit the former to be in the latter.

So farmers and workers in the tourist industry do not contribute to the UK economy? I am missing the point. We stop sending the money to Brussels but just give it to them directly and save half the money to spend on something else here – economic madness in times of austerity to think of cutting out the wasteful middleman, you think?

The Brussels elite love professionals because they are usually very gullible and think that other professionals must be right and so do what they are told. Ex PR man Cameron tells them stories of doom and gloom plus huge numbers of (mostly EU-sponsored) economics organisations give forecasts of Armageddon, which must be true because most of them do not have chronically poor records when it comes to forecasting.

Two districts of Belfast do not a province make.

I live in the constituency of the numpty that led the failed Labour IN campaign. His constituents, many of whom live on minimum wage and religiously vote Labour, ignored his pleading and voted Leave (67 per cent) because uncontrolled immigration does not improve their lot. A retired friend of mine helped the Vote Leave campaign and has written to ask him if he is going to resign. I hope he is on the sofa on This Week on Thursday night getting a hard time from Andrew Neil.

 

The BBC, like most other media outlets, wanted to keep the sensationalist story running from vote result to future consequences. As soon as the markets opened, everybody already knew they were going to be down around eight per cent, which makes a nice dramatic headline. Then it was back to the political fall-out, chasing various people on both sides around for their reaction and not reporting the less sensational recovery of the markets during the day’s trading.

Jean Claude Juncker wants to start the process as quickly as possible rather than giving us time to formulate our negotiating position and decide what we want out of the process. He needs to be told quite clearly that this is OUR divorce so WE will do it at OUR pace when WE want. Perhaps he should go and read Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty...

I do not see much prospect of a Referendum in France. Monsieur Hollande is a dead man walking with elections coming next year. The Dutch may have a Referendum but they have a history of giving in to Brussels pressure to keep voting until they get the right result.

 

Clearly Frau Merkel is a little confused. Europe and the European Union are two different things: Europe is a geographical entity comprised of a number of sovereign states. The European Union is a geo-political organisation that is being driven by an agenda with which we do not agree.

The most important blow to Frau Merkel (facing re-election next year) and Monsieur Hollande (facing re-election next year) is that £19bn is about to disappear from the EU budget and a huge proportion of the Eurozone debt is underwritten by Germany and France.

 

EU referendum petition signed by more than 1.5m

Rather predictably in such a close contest that the losers would start a petition to get a debate in the House of Commons about having a second Referendum. Let us keep voting until Brussels get the result that they want.

There is no compulsion to actually hold a debate but if they feel they must, it should be arranged for 11:55 on Friday night because the SNP will have got the last train home and most of Labour will be in the bars so there will not be a quorum present to achieve anything.

 

I am not singling out this post to reply to any personal statement but purely because it contains a few points worth addressing.

Nothing will change immediately. We did not stop immigration or bring in visas or anything on Friday.

We do need immigration (we always have had it) but what we need is controlled immigration. We should be treating the whole World equally. If the best rocket scientist is a Brazilian, we should not be refusing him a visa because we are forced to allow five lesser Austrian rocket scientists in because of EU free movement of people. We have lots of European nationals working in the NHS and nobody is proposing closing the door to them. What we do not need is British corporations importing cheap labour from the continent (often not even advertising the jobs here) because at the bottom of the economic scale, working class people on low wages are seeing their standard of living decline as their incomes are not keeping pace with inflation even while it is historically low. Those that voted Leave thinking that immigration would drop to zero clearly did not listen to the arguments being made.

There were rumours in the run up to the Referendum that the Remain-minded MPs in Parliament intend to accept some sort of Norwegian-style deal with the EU that would result in a continuation of the single market and free movement of people. This would be a betrayal of the British people and should not be allowed to happen. Naturally the single market would be acceptable to us but not with the strings attached, so there is no chance of such a deal. As I have said previously, we do not actually need a trade deal.

We will not be made an example of by the EU because we will not rush into the Article 50 negotiations like Juncker wants and we will not be pushed around by an organisation that is not fit for purpose. If they want to destroy the Eurozone to make a point they will quickly find that extremist parties of the left and the right will spring up across Europe and they will destroy the EU from within (if The Project is not already fatally wounded).

 

Given that the various Referendum political factions are going round looking for scapegoats for their failures, one might expect that some of the leaders in Europe ought to be looking to cull some of the bureaucrats who have led them to the edge of the precipice.

Juncker wants to get on with the divorce but he needs to realise that it is OUR divorce and WE will dictate the pace that it goes at and what WE want to achieve from it.

Amazed that Juncker and Tusk have not been found floating face down in La Zenne...

 

It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of the Brexit people. You have no goddamn right to 'dictate the pace'. You have decided to leave the EU, so shut the ****-up for once in your life, and get the hell out and let the EU try to carry on with its business. Whether you like the EU or not is immaterial, and, frankly, I don't give a rat's ass for your views, and haven't done on this subject over what seems an eternity. I am glad it's all over, you have decided, so, again, please leave as quietly and as quickly as you can. Thank you and cheerio.

 

I will take being called arrogant as a compliment.

We have every right to ‘dictate the pace’ of our exit. I would suggest that you read the terms of Article 50 – it is the member state (us) leaving them (the EU).

We do get to decide how we are going to do it. We will not be dictated to by the arrogant bureaucrats in Brussels.

We do not have to leave quietly. There is no reason I can think of why we should not make sure that all the other unhappy parties to this less-than-democratic organisation should not be told that they can break free from the shackles of oppression.

The European Union has outlived its usefulness because all the states of Europe are perfectly capable of agreeing to live peacefully and trade freely without the cumbersome bureaucracy of Brussels.

Swanny, you and the rest of the EU elite can find the nearest river and go and jump in it – preferably with a concrete block tied around your necks. Amazed yet?