The General Football Thread

I would have thought that the incdient with Peter Tatchell outside the national museum in Doha might have merited more discussion in this chatroom regarding the merits or otherwise of allowing Qatar to hold the World Cup. It had crossed my mind that the football-loving public have lost their appetite for criticism of Qatar and that this latest protest seems a bit predictable and tawdry. Having twice visited Qatar this year I am still struggling to understand this country. It certainlydid not feel to me to be a country that was particularly repressive and my experiences are that the powers that be will only come down on your hard if you do something untoward. It is really a matter of respecting the cutlure.

There are elements which make me uncomfortable such as working in extreme temperatures and the issue of working hours / holidays. I did not find it to be a particularly intolerant country and the people were usually friendly and helpful. Even the souk in Doha seems quite swish. If you are polite when chatting to the locals, I found them quite friendly but on 5% are naturalise Qataris. The rest are forreign nationals, some of whom might take a different view. I was fascinated by Karen Blixen's book "Out of Africa" when I read it abiut 20-odd years ago and the chapter after how cultures are different and cannot be accurately classed as being right or wrong. Thinking about this in conjunction with Tatchell's protest, I am thinking that perhaps he might benefit from respecting other people'sculture - especially as he probably has no intention of watching the football. i think most fans going to Qatar are going to enjoy the experience.

 

How dramatic

 

****e has been sent off for being, well, you get the picture.

 

Yeah, let’s just forget about the 6,500 migrant workers who have died building the ****ing stadiums eh Ian? And the fact that gay Qataris can be stoned to death?

 

I cannot understand how that goal was ruled out for offside?

The still they show Kane is ahead of the ball, but the ball is headed backwards and then deflects forwards. That surely can't be offside - my understanding was if the ball goes backwards it can't be offside?


(Could be i've got the rule wrong of course)

 

And if it was offside, is it a handball before the offside?

 

The ball can go backwards and you can still be offside. Obviously it happens very rarely. You can't be offside if the player who receives it is behind the ball when it is passed. 99% of the time this is the scenario when the ball goes backwards (for example, 2 players through on goal v the keeper, one striker passes to another and they tap it in).

 

Best example of this is a short corner. There are no defenders on the posts and the attacking team take a short corner. Player A takes the corner to player B who flicks it backwards. Player A is still in front of player B when player B touches the ball. Player A is therefore offside.

 

Thanks - I did not know that part of the rule - the corner is a good example

 

Who had one of these in the past?

 

100%. Think it came at the start of the season with my Roy of the Rovers comic

 

This is fun.

 

And that is why you should never leave early lol

 

Full credit to the referee for adding on the 2+ minutes wasted by the Ipswich goal celebrations and the substitute.

 

More on Qatar, nice people.

 

I don't condone these kinds of statements. However, I think you need to be careful when imposing Western values on other cultures which waas the main thrust of my post. There are no known cases of homosexuals being stoned to death in Qatar despite homosexuality being illegal. Most cases are dealt with by custodial sentences of around 3 years or, in the case of foreign nationals, they are deported. Just as with the consumption of alcohol, I would suggest that these things go on and that the western press is actually quite selective in what it reports.

As long as people behave responsibly, I would not enviage there being any problems in Qatar. The kind of place likely to be frequented by western fans are unlikely to be the same chosen by the locals. My guess is that the people staying in Qatar are likely to be those who have hospitality tickets with many fans probably jetting in from nearby Dubai.

The 6500 fatalities figure for construction deaths is extremely shocking. Most of the victims have been from SE Asia where construction health and safety will also have been poor. These people account for most of the blue collar workers with the management being provided by western countries. Although the senior management is largely western and used to flagship projects, I think that there are still a good proportion of the middle management who come from places like India where the culture of health and safety is extremely poor. Although I do not doubt that the pressure of delivering projects on time and in budget contribute to this, my impression anf from what little I have seen is that the culture of safe working is an anomally where the management comes from non-Western countries. Alot of the work is carried out during the night time when the temperatures are more bearable but also when visibility is not so good. The fatality figures are staggeringly poor with issues such as the extreme heat, night time working, poor middle management and the preponderance of high-rise buildings being factors which all contribute to these figures. All the new buildings are pushing the boundaries with the form of architecture without the strict controls you have in the Uk - especially post-Grenfell. Havng seen the roadworks and volume of traffic / quality of driving, I would certainly not want to be in civil engineering over there. I believe that the temperature has to be around 45 degrees before work is not allowed to continue. Probably worthwhile noting that issues with the heat reflect the fact that Qatar is one of the countries most affected by global warning.

Granted that Qatar is obviously not the kind of liberal society that we like to live in, it is totally wrong to paint the country in the same light as somewhere like Iran or Afganastan. It does make me angry when my partner explains to me the kind of things she has witnessed but, by the same token, the Qataris only make up 5% of the population and some of the everyday things that we would find unacceptable are just as likely to implimented by other nationals. From a personal persepctive, there were things in Qatar which I found upsetting but, by the same token, my experience of the Qatari people was favourable. In a nutshell, wealth gets you respect and I think most people coming from the UK to watch the football will find the experience different but interesting by the same token.

 

My issue with the WC in Qatar is this.

Ian, you are probably right in that we shouldn't enforce another country to take up our western values. However, the western world knowing what values Qatar hold, shouldn't have rewarded them with a World Cup. It is a WORLD cup for the World. Not just those that are teetotal, heterosexual and follow the right religion (if they bother with religion at all).

That is simply it. I am all for each to their own (within reason) but don't hold a bloody World Cup there if there are (to the west) civil liberty issues and human rights issues.

 

This is pretty much the nub of the argument. It was not a good decision but we are lumbered with it and have to make the most of the circumstances.

For what it is worth, I am for sharing the WC around the globe but the issue of civil liberties and human rights raises all sorts of questions whether we are talking aout deforestation in Brazil or Putin's Russia. Every country will find something to object about. At least the stadia will be dismanrtled and re-assembled in Africa to help the sport in that country. I wonder how much the WC will assist with Qatar becoming more liberal?

 

Absolutely this.

 

We aren’t lumbered with it. We should be boycotting it. It was awarded to Qatar by corrupt means, and because of that, because of their Stone Age laws, and the appalling death rates among the construction workers, the world shouldn’t be visiting them.

And I’m sorry Ian, but saying things like “the things that go on are just as likely to be done by other nationals” is just weasel words I’m afraid,