Off Topic The Politics Thread

Referendum first and now the immigrant crisis. He is unhilariously out of his depth, even in the shallow waters of this programme.

 

Blimey I'd assumed it was something vaguely relevant to him so he could at least cliché his way through. I assume like his football career he is hovering nearby, never quite getting involved.

 

Just turned on QT. Jesus, it's all so ****ing depressing.

 

Who's the woman on the right? She just said something sensible.

 

Grauniad journo.

 

Got it, Zoe Williams.

The deputy Chancellor really ought to be towering over these people, but she seems to be the voice of reason.

 

His response to the first question on the EU was actually nicely balanced. I stopped watching soon after, too painful.

 

He didn't seem so bad to me Nines. A cock alright, but there are bigger ones in the Tory cockusphere.

 

He's still a cock, though.

 

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Gideon looks a bit concerned about the fact that his look-alike cousin Adam Johnson has been caught out.

 

would those extra 300 have constituencies
or like here do they have nothing to do all day
list mps are ****
we had the leader of one party here lose his seat but because he was number 1 on his party list he still got a seat
cant even get rid of the bastards

 

Just after his brother has been done for similar offences. Must run in the family. Keep it clean Georgie boy.

 

**** knows. I just think some element of PR would stop most votes being wasted and increase turnout. I'd have them filling in potholes.

 

Just remembered (no idea why) what McDonnell said that was interesting. He pointed out to those making the argument about sovereignty that we have already ceded sovereignty to multinational companies. He is of course right. What was startling was his seeming acceptance of this as a fait accompli. So much for international socialism. His comments about us needing a long term vision for the EU were also interesting, but then he ballsed it up by going on workers rights and the EU needing to do more. I am under the strong impression that the EU has done a lot in this area, but a lot is also left to national governments. Which is why workers in France and Germany have much more protection than in the UK.

 

What's not to like...?

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What’s good for big business isn’t always good for Britain when it comes to the EU
The EU is holding back our trade with its special interests and bureaucratic protectionist instincts . We'll be richer outside

Uncertainty over the outcome of this year's general election poses the biggest threat to the UK's recovery say bosses at Davos 2015

By Dominic Raab, MP for Esher and Walton

23 Feb 2016

Yesterday, the bosses of 200 businesses – including 36 FTSE 100 companies – signed a letter calling for the UK to stay in the European Union. While that choice offers some short-term convenience to corporate Goliaths, leaving the EU offers all British firms a springboard to freer trade with the whole world.

If anything, yesterday’s letter was most striking for the two-thirds of FTSE 100 firms that refused to sign up to the lazy view that Britain can’t do better. But it is true that there is an inherent advantage for giant corporations in the way the EU operates. With their legions of lawyers, they can lobby Brussels for (and cope with) the welter of EU regulation that choke small businesses, and hold back firms competing to offer customers better deals. The EU Commission estimates its own red-tape hits small businesses 10 times harder than larger ones. Cosy for big business, lousy for consumers.

The EU also holds back exports. Just 11 per cent of British firms export, a longstanding weakness in our economy. Of UK exports, 55 per cent are beyond Europe – and their value has doubled in a decade, as the gap between trade with Europe and the rising economies of Latin America and Asia grows. These markets are the opportunities of the future.

Doesn’t the EU’s size make it better placed to open up those vital markets? Not according to the EU’s own record. It has trade deals with 50 countries. Yet the largest, South Korea, is half the economic size of Britain. In practice, size doesn’t equate with clout.

The EU is held back by special interests and protectionist instincts. Compare plucky Switzerland, which is serious about free trade. It has FTAs with 71 countries, including China and Japan, and is actively negotiating with India. Little surprise, it has topped global competitiveness rankings seven years running.

The quality of the deals matters too. Research by the think tank Civitas has found that growth in UK exports to two-thirds of the countries the EU signed FTAs with actually fell afterwards. FTAs signed by Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore were much more likely to boost their exports. Why? These countries are committed to breaking down barriers to, rather than erecting bureaucracy against, free trade.

I had first-hand experience of this at the Foreign Office, when I negotiated Investment Protection Agreements (IPAs) from Mexico to Vietnam. These agreements protect investors against arbitrary interference by host governments, with an independent mechanism to resolve disputes. The UK amassed 94 IPAs, before the EU snatched the power to negotiate them in 2009. How many IPAs has the EU delivered since then? There’s not one in force.

Britain is the fifth largest economy in the world, four times the size of Switzerland. If the Swiss aren’t afraid to stand on their own two feet, outside the EU, why is Britain? Of course, we’d have to grasp the opportunities global free trade offers. They won’t fall into our lap. The Remain campaign claim that would take years, but it need not. We could learn from Germany’s strategy on IPAs, before the EU took control.

Germany didn’t waste time haggling for the best terms with prickly emerging economies (often with long memories of exploitative Western multinational corporations). Instead, it racked up large numbers of IPAs, and inserted a “Most Favoured Nation” (MFN) clause into each one.

That way Germany made sure that, as the host country opened up, across more sectors and with more countries, German businesses automatically benefited from stronger protections – the commercial equivalent of getting their towel on the beach first. Post-Brexit, a British free trade strategy should develop an ambitious offer to scrap barriers to trade, but use MFN clauses to secure as many preliminary deals as quickly as possible to build early momentum.

Needless to say, we want to retain access to the European market. There are various post-Brexit models – Swiss, Norwegian and Turkish.

Yet since the UK economy is bigger than all of those combined, and we buy £59 billion more goods and services from Europe than they buy from us, it is reasonable to expect to agree a bespoke deal for Britain. Forget whining bureaucrats in Brussels. Continental manufacturers would never tolerate post-Brexit trade barriers that hurt them.

The Remain campaign assert the EU would cut off its nose to spite its face, vindictively defying its own interests by shutting Britain out of its markets altogether. That’s not remotely credible. And, if it were, fear of their spite is hardly a compelling reason to stay in the EU.

In contrast, the Fresh Start Project of MPs is developing an outward-looking, case for leaving the EU. To trade with our European friends, but set global horizons that deliver more jobs, higher wages and lower prices for the British people. There are no concrete guarantees. Leaving the EU is not a lottery ticket. But far from a leap into the dark, Brexit opens the door to a world of brighter opportunities.

Dominic Raab is the Conservative MP for Esher and Walton, and Minister for Human Rights

 

I have many reasons to want to leave the EU.

Lets focus on the one you seem to be scaremongering about on this thread, trade. The UK runs a trade DEFICIT of £60 billion with the EU, compared to a SURPLUS of £22 billion with the ROW. We wont be paying for a trade agreement with the EU if anything it will be the other way around.

 

Any club that finds a muppet that will pay an arm and a leg each year for membership