Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester City

I know. Just don't remind me!!!!

 

Think we may be discussing different Sanchez'... . Strong & tenacious would not be terms that immediately come to mind. Evidence: 3rd goal on Sunday for starters. lol

 

yeah that was soft when gundogan bumped him off but it was more him misjudging the ball and focussing on that rather than pushing gundogan off it.

 

It was a pretty poor effort by Sanchez but no other Spurs player even noticed there was any danger which is why he was left one on one. Sanchez has a lot of inherent qualities and a number of weaknesses that could and should have been coached out of him.

 

This is going to make me deeply unpopular round these parts, but has our defense regressed since Ledley joined the coaching staff?

It's not unusual for incredible players to be useless coaches/managers. Adams, Keane, Neville, Scholes. Maybe Ledley just isn't cut out for it?

 

I doubt he's had a major effect either way. Earlier in the season there were fans praising him for our improvement.

I do though believe there's a deeper rooted problem behind our defensive issues. I'll be the first to tell anyone our CBs aren't good enough to play for this club any longer but something like 84% of the goals we've conceded have come from individual mistakes and frankly that's just ridiculous. Even the poorest of CBs in the league likely aren't committing as many mistakes as our lot, we're literally going full David Luiz every damn week. It may be that the players aren't enjoying the tactics, aren't liking/ believing in the manager, squad unrest (we know there's been arguments of late) or something I'm missing but I think players are either consciously or subconsciously not giving 100% on the pitch and because of that we're seeing stupid mistakes all over the place.

 

Yeah I get the impression many of the players just aren't bought into the system or the task being asked of them. It was passable while it worked (which let's be honest seems a hell of a long time ago), but after cracks started to appear and teams began to work us out and adapt their game plans, our defenders were left exposed by a relentless flow of pressure and pretty much go into every game knowing that they'll be made to look like a mug by the end of it, possibly multiple times. The manager has shown almost zero inkling of a Plan B, and so the players who are hurt the most by Plan A - the defense - have either mentally checked out or play like they have a gun to their heads.

 

Then they should be sacked/fined instead of backed by the fans on top of not being arsed to earn their wage.

 

Who is backing the defenders? People on here and in general have been quite critical of them.

 

CK is more or less saying that the defenders are not applying themselves due to tactics. I don’t have a list of who’s been defending the players over the last year but many seem to be putting it all down to tactics and now it’s ok to slack off without being heavily criticised for their lack of application.

it didn’t look like a critical post to me laying into the defenders. it looked like one that was almost sympathising with the players attitude. Have another read.

 

I’d say it’s about thinking there’s a deeper rooted issue as to why our defenders are ****ing up so much.

I don’t think there’s many fans who think any of our senior defenders are good enough to play for the club but at the same time, they’re also not dreadful enough to be constantly making ridiculous mistakes like they are.

It does look like a possible sign of the manager losing the dressing room and/ or players just not buying into the tactics anymore. My line of thinking is that when Jose first came in, players bought into the winner philosophy Jose has had but as time has gone by they’ve probably not felt that he’s done much different or better to what Poch was doing so the whole “I’m a winner” aura has just diminished amongst the squad.

It’s not just defenders too, Hojbjerg barely put a foot wrong in his first 3 or so months, yet in his last 3-4 games he’s been riddled with mistakes. I definitely think fatigue has played a part in that but all of a sudden he’s gone from Mr Dependable to Mr Liability, something just don’t seem right.

I could be wrong but whilst I think our defenders (amongst others) are poor by our standards, I also don’t buy that them making mistakes every week is just a poor player issue, there are a bunch of poorer calibre defenders in the league that likely aren’t messing up as much as our lot and so I think there’s something wrong at the club.

 

I dunno if he’s losing the core players...they’re all grafting. I don’t think the defence wasn’t trying...the core just isn’t good enough anymore. I thought Japhet played well, it’s probably because he’s got hunger in him. Reguillon plays well when available because he’s new and hungry. The rest they are limited and not hungry enough to change it and by now too set in their game.

I don’t think he’s losing the dressing room.

PEH grafts every week, not great lately because he’s knackered, I see that and can understand it

Ndombele and Alli got the same treatment from the manager because both were playing well below their capacity in a key area on the pitch. Alli sulked and Ndombele the newbie got his head down. For some reason everyone has totally engrossed themselves in Alli’s sulking and seem to think it’s some big conspiracy when the truth is he’s a lazy **** and that’s about it...he could get away with it but now he can’t, tough.

Son/Kane are always grafting and never down tools, fatigue shows though.

Lamela is always injured but when on that pitch is hungry and focused.

The rest have no fire and have shown it for long enough, consistently enough to suggest they can go as far as I’m concerned so that we can once again change the mentality of the collective squad.

 

I agree.

Nobody thinks that our defenders are great, they aren't. However, they're getting worse, as are other players in other positions. Once a manager can't rouse the team to improve their commitment and performance, the manager's done.

To their credit, players are still trying to compete in most games, just as they did for Poch...but it wasn't working then..and it isn't working now.

Time to start again...including getting Levy away from footballing decisions.

 

So it’s all down to the players? I’m not disputing some aren’t good enough and need to be replaced but again it’s down to the manager to get the best of them and this is where I think your boy Jose is failing.

 

I agree there’s a core that aren’t good enough for Tottenham but when we’re getting easily outplayed by Brighton, or at home to Pool and Chelsea, then on top of that making ridiculous mistakes more or less every game, something feels deeper rooted than just having poor players by our standards.

Even some of the newer players have been making mistakes, both offensively and defensively. Bergwijn for instance can’t score for **** and keeps fluffing good chances. Rodon made a mistake against Pool. Doherty’s looked a shadow of the player he was at Wolves and has made mistakes. Hojbjerg’s made mistakes in recent games. If even the newer players are messing up or not performing then surely it can’t just be attributed to having players who’ve been here for too long that don’t have the minerals/ hunger anymore?

And this is something that’s a little worrying too, if Jose says he needs 4 or 5 more players in the summer (if he’s still here), would you genuinely have the confidence in him with these new players? He’s had 9 so far and only 2 have done well. 2 of the flops are also of his agent friend, Jorge Mendes - Gedson and Doherty - so Jose likely had a strong hand in getting those particular deals done.

 

No it’s not all down to the players but I think it’s important to remember that it’s the players aswell. I’m not prepared to pin it on the manager so a certain core of players get another era under a new manager to perform their ****...they don’t deserve it.

I said it to you the other day, he is getting the best out of them, you’re deluded if you think otherwise. I mentioned a core of players a few posts up...they are fine for me...the rest are helpless.

He’s our manager and I want him to do well...all things considered, he still deserves my support...I’m not at the being up for throwing games to get him outa the door stage quite yet. Those players though(not all) on the other hand...those who have had many years to get us over the line under 2 different styles of management, the same ones who’s contributions are always consistently limited, they are not working anymore and need to go...as many as possible.

 

I’m deluded then, because I think he’s nowhere close to getting the best out of the players.

 

Hojbjerg causes a lot of problems by conceding so many free kicks. He's been quite hard done by in that some have been harsh but the penalties in the last two matches were both caused by him literally having no idea where the player he was marking was. He seems to get brownie points on here because he makes a few interceptions and last ditch tackles but the latter is because he is almost always out of position.

 

Defensive midfielders will generally be amongst the highest for fouls, Bissouma and Soucek are having very good seasons, especially the latter and they shortly follow Hojbjerg in the fouls department. Though DMs should also in theory be highest for tackles too and Hojbjerg is currently 2nd in the league in that department. Without his break up play our defensive record would’ve been far, far worse than what it is now, his protection of the defence was crucial in the first few months of the season.

Wanyama was phenomenal in his debut 16/17 season for us and he finished it as the 3rd highest player to commit fouls. Surprisingly, he finished 9th in most tackles won though, however we were a very dominant team back then and didn’t face as much pressure as we do now.