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Match Day Thread United v Boro - FA Cup 4th round

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Chief, Feb 3, 2022.

  1. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    Shows how people view and analyse performances through their own prejudices. Your point earlier I was arguing about was NOT about the first three months of the season. It was about your talking about” the slide and rock bottom over the three YEARS of his tenure”. 3rd and 2nd were being dismissed as nothing because of the money spent. Yet these first three months showed that indeed it could get worse. Rangnick apparently can do no wrong. Yet he presided over a pathetic loss at home to a poor boro side in a competition we had some hope of progressing into the later stages. How some here can still laud the performances of a clueless team under a weak clueless manager after such a defeat is pathetic. The previous manager would have been pilloried and quite rightly so.
     
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  2. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    Because the manager isn't culpable in this instance. Obviously. As most of us can see clearly.

    The team, on the whole, played pretty well. They just missed some glaring opportunities.

    Notably, two senior players. Ronaldo missing the target with a penalty and Fernandes missing an open goal. Plus, Rashford snatching at all his chances.

    Contrast this with the EL final, which also went to penalties.

    Muddled tactics and mismanaged substitutions from the clown(s) who was then in charge and, somehow, retained his job after it.

    Another thing, at the turn of the year last season, we were top or second with games in hand. The clown then decided to tell the whole world that we weren't in a title race and that we'd do our very best to muddle along and finish as high as he could manage. And guess what, we fell off spectacularly from that very second.

    You've made your mind up about Rangnick after a couple of games because of no idea what? We've won most of them ffs. Yet were prepared to give a bloke who was patently so far out of his depth it was at times embarrassing, unlimited time.

    It's a weird stance, and it's not even disguised. Bizarre as ****.
     
    #42
  3. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    You confirm my points about bias and prejudices. I am not arguing that the previous manager shouldn’t have gone and looking back he should have gone after that Europa final.

    some of us need to see the wood for the trees. Great performance yet we are dumped out of the cup. It’s like the surgeon saying that his operation was perfect but just a shame that the patient died in recovery. Same with the previous manager. He could be and was criticised for many of the things he did and the matches that we didn’t perform BUT we did end up 3 and 2. Of course any tom dick and harry can achieve that with the magnificent squad we had! The previous highly reputed and experienced managers didn’t achieve even that but let’s not mention that. I am not here to defend Ole but point out how views are distorted by biases for and against.

    and yes we won most of the games under Rangnick. But of course this was a favourable run with most teams in the bottom half and many of the matches had DeGea as MOTM. Didn’t the previous manager do the same or even better when he came or is my memory failing me ?
     
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  4. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Every manager must be criticized! That is my believe. But the thing with your criticism, Christian, is that it took you three years to see the sky above you. All of a sudden you’ve turned yourself into a fervent angry poster when you told yourself beautiful lies for three years. Fans with your attitude is exactly why this club became a joke. You’re deeply clouded by emotions and equally lack perspective.

    Also, your reference to 2nd and 3rd emphasizes your lack of perspective. That we should have never lost 12 points to City when we were already out in front at the start of the year. We effectively tanked it! Always think about that before you jump into league position as some mark of progress and success.
     
    #44
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  5. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    Correct.

    But we were getting there, or something.
     
    #45
  6. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Well, at the start of this season was when we at least all converged our opinions that there would be no more excuses to not challenge for the title.

    But I can already see Christian labeling that notion as “a sense of entitlement” by fans. What he’s essentially doing there is doubling down on those years of 2nd and 3rd as the “getting there” years - the perfect blueprint for great success that we are now enjoying today.
     
    #46
  7. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I'd really be interested to know what Christian's mates say to him when he comes out with this stuff.
     
    #47
  8. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    I will throw my cap in here.
    I am down in writing on here saying i felt the players should take most of the blame for the fiasco the last few seasons and stick to that. The attitude was shocking from far too many of them, yes the were poorly coached if at all but i would expect a little personal pride to have kicked in and at least some effort shown.
    So far under Ralf there has been a massive up-tick in attitude and effort and the difference in coaching is easy to spot.
    I put no real blame on anyone for the cup loss, yes it's easy to say we missed open goals but that can happen to any player at any time (we have all seen players put it over the bar from two foot off the line).
    In short i am more than happy with the improvement i have seen both in attitude and application of the system over the last couple of games, if it keeps going 4th shouldn't be a problem and it will be a good base for the start of next season whoever is in charge.
     
    #48
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  9. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    You're one those in the camp who was backing Ole so I hope Christian at least accepts the point you're making.

    Conversely, and this is the bit Christian really REALLY fails to grasp, is that if things were just as dire under Rangnick then he'd be getting pelters from the same folk who were giving Ole pelters. So this idea that somehow there's some bias here is completely for the birds. There's no personal love for Rangnick, he has no history with the club. Why the hell would anyone want to back him unless he's done a decent job so far? What the hell is the bias here? I'm really at a loss.
     
    #49
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  10. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    No, I don’t believe any of you have any special love for Rangnick. What you are doing now is looking at the matches more objectively. Most of you are now seeing the players missing the open goals, not putting the effort and making mistakes and blaming the true culprits. In short there is more fairness in the assessment.

    It is really interesting that those most vociferous against the manager last time are now most protective of him when things go wrong. No doubt in my mind if we had been dumped by Boro and played exactly the same under the previous regime some here would not have seen the better passing, the attacking performances etc. No way Jose: The manager takes 100% of the blame.
     
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  11. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, the bucks ends with the manager. It really doesn’t matter who that manager is. However on the balance of the predicament that we found ourselves three months ago, the club is without a doubt in a better place today even though there is still plenty of with left to be done.

    Our problems under Ole were not just about the results. Our weaknesses were greatly amplified because Ole didn’t have the tools to hold the players fully accountable and motivate them. There were far too much panhandling and the manager is solely responsible for that. He, and only he, was responsible for setting the right tone to shape the culture of his team. He failed at every turn from the moment he became the full time manager (farkin Woodward!!!).

    Regarding setting/managing expectations with confidence, especially in the public, Ole failed this basic function of his role several times. Just like Moyes almost a decade ago. He gave observers an indication that he had no idea what he was doing. It’s unforgivable that he didn’t believe that we could win the league when we were already out in front at the turn of the year. This was a psychological blow to the team’s ambitions and from an unforced error. We never recovered!

    In short, results were simply the last thing to go as manifestation of the lack of structure from a manager that was hugely out of his depth. In the end, there is very little to show for the £312m spent in three years.
     
    #51
  12. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Bang goes that theory. This is from the start of January....

     
    #52
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  13. cytrax

    cytrax Well-Known Member

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    Christian is boxing himself into an unnecessary situation with the claims of bias. Many of us had never even heard of Rangnick until the search for a manager began. But “oh yeah, we have a blind bias for this him “.

    As I’ve said before, I personally don’t expect much from this season. We destroyed our opportunity before winter even started. But I want us to have more structure going forward. Restore discipline amongst players, hard work as a team and bring in a proper manager to continue the work in close season by building a team that can deliver the goods on the pitch. From what I have seen so far, Rangnick is the right man to start that crucial work.
     
    #53

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