Match Day Thread Vs Aston Villa (H)

How come someone can get a card for a dive or simulation to get a pen or an advantage when on the other hand someone pretends to be punched unconscious causing a goal being ruled out, gets no punishment?

 

because the ref following var advice ruled it was a foul therefore not a dive .

 

The ref did change his mind to rule it a foul, agreed. But my point was about that contact being made to be a punch which floored him unconscious for 5 minutes. That was play acting, foul or no foul.

 

which happens constantly in every game . Exaggeration of contact is totally endemic in football these days from all clubs and pretty much all players .

 

Just because it always happens doesn't mean it's right

 

I don't know which incident you are talking about because I didn't see any football over the weekend. If a player goes down holding their head then the ref has to err on the side of caution. VAR doesn't look at these things as a rule but if we're to keep the darned thing then it could be used in looking at head clashes, given how some players are simulating head injuries.

 

Don't think anyone is blaming the ref. As you say, he's obliged to stop play. However, a player feigning a head injury to get the ref to stop play is wrong too. Son clearly didn't have a serious head injury, it was the slightest of glances at best.

(Not sure if that's the incident they were talking about)

 

Anyone feigning injury is simply cheating but to feign a head injury should be a red card imo. Was it the Wolves goalie against us (didn't see the game) had a head clash that stopped play for about 15 minutes. Not saying he wasn't touched but he didn't go to hospital, which I thought was mandatory following any sort of bad head clash, and went off on international duty a few days later. Sorry to be cynical about it but that doesn't sound like a real injury occurred. Having said all of this I still think the refs need to be extremely cautious. It's better to be taken in by a feigned head injury and stop play than to let play go on and dismiss it altogether.

 

I don't know mate but I think there is a much simpler solution.

Rugby has it fairly well down now (if we take head injury and dementia seriously) it has taken 4 years? to get to down though and some still do stupid things.

Why football feels the need to once again reinvent the wheel i do not know.

1. all players are baselined for cognitive tests.
2. Irrespective of situation a player getting a head contact must leave the pitch for a HIA. rugby allows ANY player irrespective of being taken off before to replace them. this takes 10mins.
3. player can return after 10mins.
4. if player is removed for Head injury then that sub is made permanent with no loss to team.
5. rugby has gone so far now that accidental contact is judge on the basis of force and not even intent but did you take care not to hit, did the player dip the head etc and red cards are spoiling games that look very innocuous but there are still silly players getting silly reds they know to not do.


For me if football is serious about head injury it should take this one and not change it up. It begs the question whether heading the ball is enough to trigger the failure of HIA.

I believe rashford was clutching his face v spurs. got 3 different contacts but chose the chin contact to make a big deal of. You know full well had he had to go for for 10mins and risk a sub he would not have done it.

Son the same, he dived and rolled about but his act should have triggered a HIA.

rugby though it should eliminate head contact but it did. football thinks head contact is impossible to remove, yet it probably is. Failing arms can easily be cut out over time.

If mctominay thought he could risk a red (or mane who is always at it) then they would stop. I just think HIA is enough to stop the diving. Players must be sent for it 100% of the time. then if you can get to the point where head shots are looked at time and again it will be painful but the red cards will cut it out.


again Richard and keane were whining on in the utd game that it wasn't football and it was embarrassing and all of that but they totally ignored the head injury asepect of why the ref and VAR gobshite beleived that was a foul not a dive.

Son made a meal of it but head contact must be removed from the game. the stats don't lie footballers are 3.5 times more likely to get dementia.

 

Some very good points.

The PL has gone someway in the right direction with concussion substitutes. I agree with you that all head injuries should have to have an off field assessment and I believe that is what the introduction of concussion substitutes was about but have we seen any yet? I know a knock doesn't mean concussion but maybe it should be treated as such with removal of the player for assessment. It may make those inclined to feign it think twice. I think it's a horrible thing to do to feign a head injury.

 

Did anyone see the rodri one in the Dortmund game? Ref gave a pen cos he thought rodri got kicked, went down in the box holding his face.

On replay, Dortmund player was no where near his face and didn’t even make contact with him at all.

what happens, overturned and nothing else. Should be minimum a yellow card but again nothing happens. So why wouldn’t players go down as there are no repercussions for them

 

Also remember when martial got sent off for united v spurs in the 6-1 game earlier in season for touching lamela on the face in the box from a corner... lamela goes down holding his face. So wonder if players feel embarrassed about it afterwards when watching back as it’s shocking.

 

i agree just pointing out the fact only certain incidents ever get any attention - for example only "dives" that people moan about are in or near the box but they happen the length of the pitch .

 

Yeh, what happened to bookings for simulation. I think if VAR is involved and it's a feigned head injury, it should be a red. Any other body part fake injury, yellow.

 

Do you think refs look at recordings of their games later to assess themselves on how they did? They would surely see the serial offenders and be wary next time. Although it never ceases to amaze me how the same players get away with it time after time, so I've probably just answered my own question.

 

There was no genuine head contact in that incident. Son tried grabbing McTominay’s shirt, he flung an arm out to brush him off, and due to the difference in their height he brushed Son’s face with his hand. There was nothing in it, Son knew he’d lost his man in a dangerous position and threw himself to the deck. He feigned injury and even got treatment for his non injury.

The issue in that incident wasn’t the referee, VAR, head injury protocols or anything else barring cheating. The player cheated, simple as that. Players do it every week in similar circumstances, all over the pitch, whether it’s diving, holding their faces, initiating contact in the box etc etc etc.

You’ve then got the pundits saying ‘the game’s gone’ as the goal was disallowed, as if it’s VAR’s fault. These are the exact same pundits who give it, ‘he was entitled to go down there’, when there’s the merest touch in the box, or ‘he was probably too honest’ when a player is touched but stays on his feet as the contact wasn’t enough to bring him down. ****ing hypocrites.

The issue is cheating players, no more, no less.

 

I think there might have been one.

The issue is the grey zone. if we allow clubs to decide how heavy a contact is before concussion then we will be in the same place as now.

every head contact should be a HIA but on the other side we need to see that teams like new zealand actively started head shoting players on the rugby pitch to get the best players off the park. The punishment for making contact with the head needs to be harsh.


As you say this feigning is merely part of the mindset. They can scream like being stabbed, hold legs, head whatever. Most players (and I mean most) are horrible cheats as they have been taught its required. they have to now be taught its counter productive.

If a neymar can get players sent off and keep going after holding their face and rolling about it would be even worse imo then players head shoting VVD eith an elbow early on to get him off the park.

its all cheating. One involves feigning injury the other involves a team putting a ball up to a target man to flail and arm at someone.

 

it was barely a finger i agree. my point is is that if sona had been forced off for 10mins for HIA he wouldn't have fiegned it. Particularly as at that precise point there was no danger of a goal really.

You are also dead right on those pundtis I am SURE i heard someone say something to the effect of that this weekend. I can't remember which it was.

 

The problem with that is a player could get a finger in the eye, or a bang on the nose, rightly go down, be fine after a minute or so, and be forced off the pitch for 10 minutes for nowt, penalising his own team.

The ex pro pundits are mostly all hypocrites, as most have practised the ‘dark arts’ as they call them with a smile, and then whine when officials fall for the cheating. They literally want both sides of the coin.

 

would help if refs would give a pen if a player is fouled but tries to continue .